Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

[RussH]

It may well affect all cars as having driven a 1.2 Euro6 engined 500, I could easily imagine that many owners would not actually notice the issue until faced with a decent hill start and even then probably think it was just a cold engine or some brief glitch. But then, admittedly that could have just been the car I drove.

As much as I'd love to have someone talk me through the software algorithms it all does make you long for those days of a carburettor, a clutch and a couple of cables.

It absolutely doesn't, I know as I have a Nov. 2014 registered one. As I've said before though the throttle response is not quite "right". I therefore suspect it's a mixture of software and tolerances.

Astounding that it's taking this long and the customer service is plumbing new depths even for car manufacturers.

 

[ahmett]

I am surprised fiat is selling any cars at the moment with this fiasco ! If I was ab4444 i would have been pretty angry and would stage a sit in at fiat hq until I had a loan car

 

[Super Uwe]

I think people on here with the problem need to start bombarding Fiat hq ,and see if it makes a difference just a suggestion ,keep copies send recorded delivery ....

Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V.
Corporate Office: 25 St James's Street​, London, SW1A 1HA
​United Kingdom

I completely agree.

ab4444 - I'm sorry to hear your latest update. Think now you have no choice but to go right to the top and contact Steve Zanlunghi (see my post 1502 again).

He needs to be made personally aware of what sort of service the company is providing. Obviously your new dealership are doing their best which is a positive, but the overall customer service you have received to date...it's mind-blowing.

As I said before, it's no so much to have a rant but to ask for senior management help. Because the people in Fiat CS who are supposed to help you clearly are not able to.

 

[ahmett]

I completely agree.


ab4444 - I'm sorry to hear your latest update. Think now you have no choice but to go right to the top and contact Steve Zanlunghi (see my post 1502 again).



He needs to be made personally aware of what sort of service the company is providing. Obviously your new dealership are doing their best which is a positive, but the overall customer service you have received to date...it's mind-blowing.

From personal experience fiat only start caring when it's too late. It's exactly the case with this, the 1.2 euro 6 should have never made it to production

 

[FinFerNan]

ab4444 - I am lost for words. WTF are Fiat playing at

 

[jrkitching]

Also, does it just affect UK cars? We get non-UK visitors to this forum, but is there an equivalent problem on LHD cars? Do the LHD cars have cable clutches like the Mk3 LHD Panda?

Palma500S was one of the first to suffer badly from this issue - I'm guessing his was a LHD model.

The vast majority of folks who are posting here have RHD cars, but that may just reflect the geographic profile of the typical forum user.

I therefore suspect it's a mixture of software and tolerances.

Basically I'd agree. The more I think about this, the more I'm inclined to believe the interaction between the new type of clutch position sensor and the fuelling algorithm is at the heart of this issue.

Knowing the position of the pedal is not the same as knowing the clutch biting point.

 

[Andyb80]

I agree too. The erratic throttle response when pulling away must be down to the clutch. And when the car won't accelerate with full throttle (1st gear) on a steep hill, that's obviously to do with engine management.

 

[Palma500s]

Palma500S was one of the first to suffer badly from this issue - I'm guessing his was a LHD model.

Yes mine was LHD in Spain and I have tested 3 other new 1.2 Eu6 models that were as bad as each other. The problem is also apparently being discussed on German forums too.
I have only seen a couple of comments on Spanish forums but I am surprised there isn't an uproar here considering there are so many 500's on the roads.

 

[chelseaanastasia]

Hi, thought id post on this thread as I am having the same issue.


Bought my car (1.2 colour therapy) just over a year ago now which seems to have been when these 'problem' engines were being put in unfortunately.


At first I thought it was my driving, this being my first car I thought I was just adjusting to a new car etc but not at all. My dad is a mechanic and came out with me, also drove the car and it did the same issue - moving off mainly (unless you have 2K revs it starts to judder like its going to stall)


It has since been in to fiat, from which I went out with the main mechanic there and he said its the engine problem. The guy even told me that he was given a fiat 500 as a courtesy car whilst his was in the garage and he hated it (wanted to drive it into a wall after 2 days).


After a full day of it being in the garage I was handed it back with a piece of paper with the top gear/watchdog report and told that they can not do anything and that's it! Until Fiat HQ decide to recall and remap the engines I am stuck with it.


Not impressed with the service at Fiat at all lately. I have to wait 1 more year before I can hand it back and walk away from it which I think I will end up doing as its stressing me out how sluggish it is at the moment.

 

[snes]

Chelsea, if I understood correctly, your dealer can at least be praised for its refreshing honesty. Unlike the weasel tongued shower that Ab44 had to deal with.

But that obviously doesn't make things better for you - my sympathies.

 

[jrkitching]

Hello and welcome to the forum :wave:.

Sorry to hear you're suffering as a result of this issue.

I have to wait 1 more year before I can hand it back and walk away from it which I think I will end up doing as its stressing me out how sluggish it is at the moment.

I'd hand it back too. Driving it in this way for an extended period is sure to put extra wear on the clutch and I should not be in the least bit surprised if we see quite a few premature clutch failures in the years to come.

 

[ab4444]

Don't forget everyone the Fiat 'approved' method of driving these cars up inclines is to use only the clutch and 'allow the car to take care of you'.

Update: my finance company has confirmed that they are going to arrange an exchange of my current vehicle with a brand new 1.3 diesel with the original options I put on the first car also. This has been agreed internally between themselves and Fiat and ahead of even trying to apply the fix to the car in April.

I must just add that at present, I've not had the full details confirmed in writing but this has been promised in writing as soon as the negotiations have been finalised.

I suggest to ALL those who are still experiencing difficulties to keep campaigning, keep ringing, keep badgering everyone. Eventually, they'll have to realise that they can't just keep ignoring people. The squeakiest wheel gets the grease. Squeak loudly - it does pay off in the long run. And boy, what a long 7 months it's been.

 

[jrkitching]

Don't forget everyone the Fiat 'approved' method of driving these cars up inclines is to use only the clutch and 'allow the car to take care of you'.

Is this actually possible on serious hills?

 

[ab4444]

When you get the biting point with the clutch on the handbrake, you release the handbrake, avoid the accelerator at all costs and just let the clutch out VERY gradually. And the car will, VERY gradually start to pull away.

After a few seconds, you are then encouraged to apply gentle revs.

But let's be clear; you cannot be in a hurry and you are NOT in control of the car.

 

[ahmett]

Don't forget everyone the Fiat 'approved' method of driving these cars up inclines is to use only the clutch and 'allow the car to take care of you'.

Update: my finance company has confirmed that they are going to arrange an exchange of my current vehicle with a brand new 1.3 diesel with the original options I put on the first car also. This has been agreed internally between themselves and Fiat and ahead of even trying to apply the fix to the car in April.

I must just add that at present, I've not had the full details confirmed in writing but this has been promised in writing as soon as the negotiations have been finalised.

I suggest to ALL those who are still experiencing difficulties to keep campaigning, keep ringing, keep badgering everyone. Eventually, they'll have to realise that they can't just keep ignoring people. The squeakiest wheel gets the grease. Squeak loudly - it does pay off in the long run. And boy, what a long 7 months it's been.

congratulations ! finally you have reached the end of the road. i wouldnt be surprised if you never bought a fiat again after this.

p.s. on another note; fiat now really are starting to get annoyed with me, i call their cs everyday enquiring about when my spare parts will arrive, apparently still in Italy = )

 

[SamuelSmith1329]

Day 4 of my loan car from Enterprise. I was advised upon collection that the initial hire period was for 4 days (which was the standard initial hire period). This would take me to today, Sunday.

I rang FGA Capital and I also rang Customer Relations at Fiat and spoke to a man called 'Heath' who had previously told me I was 'lucky to get a courtesy car' (I bit my tongue as was incensed by his comment). This same individual assured me that it was nothing to worry about and the hire period would automatically update on the systems both at their end and at Enterprises (clearly he doesn't know what he's talking about).

And so today I get phone calls from Enterprise saying that they have received a phone call from Fiat breakdown to say they were cancelling the payments for the loan car and that unless Fiat agreed to extend the hire period I would personally be liable for the costs of the car.

Despite my best efforts, I cannot get hold of the contact at the Chippenham branch of Enterprise, and of course, Fiat Customer Services & FGA Capital are all closed because it's a Sunday.

Enterprise have confirmed that I can continue to drive it today and tomorrow but Fiat will need to extend the hire or the liability falls to me.

You couldn't make this up. Completely gobsmacked.

ab4444 is your case manager at Fiat Heath aswell because I don;t think I can use the words I want to use to describe how useless he is on here...

My car is returning to the dealer for the 6th time tomorrow for yet more faults (ABS Unavailable - EBD failure and running really rough and shuddering) As I'm used to fiat saying there's no fault codes in the memory and that they can't replicate the fault I done a diagnostic test on it myself using a snap on solus and i have photographic evidence of 2 fault codes this time... (Body control module and engine torque from e.i. sign. U1700 and C1212) so I know for a fact there are fault codes this time...

I'm also wondering as I live in South London whether it's worth a little trip up fiat HQ in London and seeing what they have to say to me face to face when armed with my folder of evidence of their failings and whether they will finally give me my money back... My first ever new car and my first ever Fiat have been a pretty bad example of what it should be to own a car

 

[twodinners]

It absolutely doesn't, I know as I have a Nov. 2014 registered one. As I've said before though the throttle response is not quite "right". I therefore suspect it's a mixture of software and tolerances.

Well, it is of course all objective, and one person's 'slight problem' may well be another's 'undriveable' and if it is a question of calibration then they may all be considered to be faulty to some degree.

 

[jrkitching]

and if it is a question of calibration then they may all be considered to be faulty to some degree.

I'd say it's a question of manufacturing tolerances rather than calibration; I'm not aware of anything adjustable that can be calibrated.

A bit like the rear beam & suspension setup; manufacturing tolerances are quite wide , so some track perfectly whilst others are doomed to premature rear tyre wear even when technically within limits. No means of adjustment is provided and IIRC some of the early cars were so bad that they had the rear frames changed under warranty. Fortunately this situation seems to have improved since the fitting of the revised rear beam from the 2010 model year onwards.

Update: my finance company has confirmed that they are going to arrange an exchange of my current vehicle with a brand new 1.3 diesel with the original options I put on the first car also. This has been agreed internally between themselves and Fiat and ahead of even trying to apply the fix to the car in April.

That's great news, and perhaps a sign that Fiat are finally realising that downplaying the problem in the hope that folks will just go away isn't going to work. Fingers crossed it all goes smoothly from this point forward for you.

 

[Palma500s]

Don't forget everyone the Fiat 'approved' method of driving these cars up inclines is to use only the clutch and 'allow the car to take care of you'.

Update: my finance company has confirmed that they are going to arrange an exchange of my current vehicle with a brand new 1.3 diesel with the original options I put on the first car also. This has been agreed internally between themselves and Fiat and ahead of even trying to apply the fix to the car in April.

I must just add that at present, I've not had the full details confirmed in writing but this has been promised in writing as soon as the negotiations have been finalised.

I suggest to ALL those who are still experiencing difficulties to keep campaigning, keep ringing, keep badgering everyone. Eventually, they'll have to realise that they can't just keep ignoring people. The squeakiest wheel gets the grease. Squeak loudly - it does pay off in the long run. And boy, what a long 7 months it's been.

Congratulations! I did the same (although I had to pay the difference in value between the 1.2 and the diesel. Not sure if you have to or not?).
I honestly think you will be really happy with the diesel. Plenty of low down power for pulling away and for overtaking on motorways etc plus very economical on fuel.

 

[Palma500s]

Is this actually possible on serious hills?

It certainly wasn't in mine! I tried it on a quite steep ramp and it constantly stalled.