Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

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Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

Well, it is of course all objective, and one person's 'slight problem' may well be another's 'undriveable' and if it is a question of calibration then they may all be considered to be faulty to some degree.

The reasoning behind my theory of tolerances and software comes from 2 bad experiences with fly by wire throttle cars.

The first being an Astra which was borderline un drivable at times. It would die as you pulled out of junctions and backfire on change up if you used full throttle and high revs.

I eventually complained enough and Vauxhall sent a factory tech / trouble shooter to look at it. When it was revved with the bonnet open I figured out what the odd whoomph noise was. It was un burnt fuel igniting in the inlet manifold! At which he concluded that he knew what was wrong. He'd seen it before and told me it was due to tolerances and there was nothing much he could do. Although they did remap the ecu. This did improve things slightly but caused pre ignition. To be honest I couldn't have cared less. It was a lease car and I hated it with a vengeance by now. It was like the scene from Faulty Towers, I could have genuinely thrashed it to within an inch of its life. In fact some day's I would deliberately drive it on the rev limiter pretty much all day. It actually survived to 3 years / 100k miles.

The second dog was a Toyota Avensis diesel. Another fly by wire throttle.
If the trip computer could have talked it would have gone something like "thankyou for requesting 100% throttle. I will consider your request" cue 2 second pause followed by " I've considered your request and I don't feel like doing that, you can have 20%. Thankyou for risking your life with Toyota today"

Felt like it would last for ever but hated driving it in any sort of urban traffic.

I can really empathize with people who are suffering drivability issues compounded by the ridiculously poor response from fiat. Other manufacturers have actually been in way worse positions but they have reacted, recalling literally millions of cars.

I guess you mean subjective and I won't bother saying it again. It has no issues with hill starts.
 
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The reasoning behind my theory of tolerances and software comes from 2 bad experiences with fly by wire throttle cars.

The first being an Astra which was borderline un drivable at times. It would die as you pulled out of junctions and backfire on change up if you used full throttle and high revs.

I eventually complained enough and Vauxhall sent a factory tech / trouble shooter to look at it. When it was revved with the bonnet open I figured out what the odd whoomph noise was. It was un burnt fuel igniting in the inlet manifold! At which he concluded that he knew what was wrong. He'd seen it before and told me it was due to tolerances and there was nothing much he could do. Although they did remap the ecu. This did improve things slightly but caused pre ignition. To be honest I couldn't have cared less. It was a lease car and I hated it with a vengeance by now. It was like the scene from Faulty Towers, I could have genuinely thrashed it to within an inch of its life. In fact some day's I would deliberately drive it on the rev limiter pretty much all day. It actually survived to 3 years / 100k miles.

The second dog was a Toyota Avensis diesel. Another fly by wire throttle.
If the trip computer could have talked it would have gone something like "thankyou for requesting 100% throttle. I will consider your request" cue 2 second pause followed by " I've considered your request and I don't feel like doing that, you can have 20%. Thankyou for risking your life with Toyota today"

Felt like it would last for ever but hated driving it in any sort of urban traffic.

I can really empathize with people who are suffering drivability issues compounded by the ridiculously poor response from fiat. Other manufacturers have actually been in way worse positions but they have reacted, recalling literally millions of cars.

I guess you mean subjective and I won't bother saying it again. It has no issues with hill starts.
if Fiat had tried it in the US they would have recalled all the cars by now and sued Fiat. And that the government itself would do. Of course, in the EU and UK we have communist governments who only care about their pockets. OFCOM is more than a joke. Big firms get away with murder every day.

I would have loved to see Fiat selling the 1.2 Euro 6 in the USA, but I guess Fiat are smarter than that, they know US people would not settle for such rubbish and that Fiat would not get away with it.

I hope the Europeans will rise up and cost Fiat a lot of money.
 
The reasoning behind my theory of tolerances and software comes from 2 bad experiences with fly by wire throttle cars.

The first being an Astra which was borderline un drivable at times.

The second dog was a Toyota Avensis diesel.

It's worth reminding ourselves that Fiat do not have exclusive rights to producing cars with these sort of issues; there are plenty of products (and not just cars) which work fine as hand-finished prototypes, but due to cost cutting and manufacturing tolerances, fail to perform adequately once put into mass production.
 
It's worth reminding ourselves that Fiat do not have exclusive rights to producing cars with these sort of issues; there are plenty of products (and not just cars) which work fine as hand-finished prototypes, but due to cost cutting and manufacturing tolerances, fail to perform adequately once put into mass production.
exactly, but its fiat's reaction when they know they are in the wrong that is the biggest problem here.
 
if Fiat had tried it in the US they would have recalled all the cars by now and sued Fiat. And that the government itself would do. Of course, in the EU and UK we have communist governments who only care about their pockets. OFCOM is more than a joke. Big firms get away with murder every day.

I would have loved to see Fiat selling the 1.2 Euro 6 in the USA, but I guess Fiat are smarter than that, they know US people would not settle for such rubbish and that Fiat would not get away with it.

I hope the Europeans will rise up and cost Fiat a lot of money.
Oddly enough there has just been an interview on the radio comparing the UK to the U.S. and recalls.

My perception being that the threat of a class action lawsuit would be the primary driver. Yes it has an affect but the "expert" put it down to the different public reaction. Here the mere mention of a recall destroys reputations. In the U.S. it's perceived as a sign of a strong and responsible company.
 
exactly, but its fiat's reaction when they know they are in the wrong that is the biggest problem here.

Judging by what I read on other car forums, Fiat do not have an exclusive on that either!

My perception being that the threat of a class action lawsuit would be the primary driver.

If the Stig can't manage it, I doubt if a class action lawsuit could drive one up a hill either :rolleyes:.

The real issue isn't so much recalling the cars, as being able to fix them once they have done so. If Fiat recall the cars before they have a fix, they face a huge bill for courtesy cars and may also be opening the floodgates to a shedload of legal rejections.
 
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Don't forget everyone the Fiat 'approved' method of driving these cars up inclines is to use only the clutch and 'allow the car to take care of you'.

Update: my finance company has confirmed that they are going to arrange an exchange of my current vehicle with a brand new 1.3 diesel with the original options I put on the first car also. This has been agreed internally between themselves and Fiat and ahead of even trying to apply the fix to the car in April.

I must just add that at present, I've not had the full details confirmed in writing but this has been promised in writing as soon as the negotiations have been finalised.

I suggest to ALL those who are still experiencing difficulties to keep campaigning, keep ringing, keep badgering everyone. Eventually, they'll have to realise that they can't just keep ignoring people. The squeakiest wheel gets the grease. Squeak loudly - it does pay off in the long run. And boy, what a long 7 months it's been.

(y) Great news, let's hope they just get you sorted now (y)
 
Thank you FinFerNan.

I now have it in writing from the finance company that Fiat have officially agreed to the vehicle exchange, complete with all my original extras. Because of this, there will be a wait time of 6-8 weeks for the car to be built and shipped over from Poland.

Please - anyone who is experiencing problems with their car. If you would like to get in touch with me privately to discuss your case, I would be more than happy to do so. As you will all know, I have put up with an inordinate amount of B.S over the past 7 months and you do NOT have to get pushed to one side by Fiat; if you know your rights, collate enough evidence and stick your heels in, you CAN succeed.

I wish everyone well on here and will continue participating actively on here to assist and advise in any way that I can.

Don't be scared. You don't need to involve solicitors. It won't cost you a fortune. It IS stressful, does require a lot of commitment to stand your ground and the support of those around you (my right hand man picked me up various times when I buckled). This environment has also been incredibly supportive and without your shared knowledge and experiences, I wouldn't have had anywhere to turn to.

This is therefore going to be the last of my own update posts for a while but once I have my new little baby I will post a piccie. I also have a little something up my sleeve for my original dealership, too - those of you who have followed my story will, I'm sure, take great delight in 'watching this space'! (nothing too sinister but definitely completely deserved!!!!).

Thank you all.
Amy
 
Absolutely delighted for you(y)

Your story has been truly epic. It should never ever have got the stage it has, but hopefully you can look forward to your new 500 when it comes.

All the best with your baby too, I can only imagine how stressful it must have been having to deal with all this s*** AND being pregnant!:eek:
 
Amy,

Well done to persevere in your battle against the immovable object. We tried to get an appropriate response for many months but caved in finally as we had the finances to replace the car, a legal battle would have been beyond our means and we had just had enough of banging out heads against a brick wall. Also we had been informed that the supposed ‘fix’ would not work without losing the low emissions Euro 6 standard and would therefore be illegal to implement. Customer Services have been culpable from the start, initially they told us they knew of the problem and Fiat was working on a fix, otherwise we would have got rid of the car straight away and lost less in changing to a total different vehicle. We had good service from our dealership for many years, but their support of the Fiat ‘there’s nothing wrong with it’ line has lost them our custom and we feel very bitter about their indifference over the problem.

Getting a vehicle that performs well has transformed our lives after months of misery and I am sure your new diesel engine car will give you as much pleasure.
 
It's in this weeks autoexpress magazine that the software update is being done in April for non ESC cars and May for ESC cars, good news if true
 
It's in this weeks autoexpress magazine that the software update is being done in April for non ESC cars and May for ESC cars, good news if true

I'm not surprised it's in Auto Express; guess who has been talking to them?? That'll be me!!

I have in the last few hours been told in writing that my new diesel will be ordered from the factory today and at NO additional cost. It will be a straight exchange with my 1.2 non-hill liking model and all details on my contract remain the same.
 
Sorry to be a pain but people that have the 1.2 engine - can you briefly explain what your car is doing?


I bought my car in Jan last year so its roughly 13 months old and I am sure mine has the problem 1.2 engine. Its slow with no low down torque and wont set off smoothly unless it has at least 2K revs (or you set off realllllllly slow)


I am trying to get in touch with Fiat HQ and my dealership but as yet had no luck! (think they are avoiding my emails)


Thanks!
Chelsea.
 
Sorry to be a pain but people that have the 1.2 engine - can you briefly explain what your car is doing?


I bought my car in Jan last year so its roughly 13 months old and I am sure mine has the problem 1.2 engine. Its slow with no low down torque and wont set off smoothly unless it has at least 2K revs (or you set off realllllllly slow)


I am trying to get in touch with Fiat HQ and my dealership but as yet had no luck! (think they are avoiding my emails)


Thanks!
Chelsea.
did you call them? i dont think fiat UK are any good at replying to emails
 
Sorry to be a pain but people that have the 1.2 engine - can you briefly explain what your car is doing?


I bought my car in Jan last year so its roughly 13 months old and I am sure mine has the problem 1.2 engine. Its slow with no low down torque and wont set off smoothly unless it has at least 2K revs (or you set off realllllllly slow)


I am trying to get in touch with Fiat HQ and my dealership but as yet had no luck! (think they are avoiding my emails)


Thanks!
Chelsea.

I think that the Euro 6 update was only on cars built after 1st May 2014.I have a mid April car and mine is a Euro 5 so I would assume your 13 month old car is also Euro 5 (think it only affects Euro 6).Mine is not the fastest off the line either but I've had three Pandas all with the 1.2 and they all drive the same,it doesn't really bother me or maybe I've learnt to live with it :)
 
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