Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

[snes]

JR - or possibly someone else - mentioned how this situation would not exist in the States.

Now I understood that consumer law re car buying had improved in this country. I really don't know how it works in the States.

If it is not deemed too "off topic", could anyone help educate me re the above?

 

[jrkitching]

JR - or possibly someone else - mentioned how this situation would not exist in the States.

Now I understood that consumer law re car buying had improved in this country. I really don't know how it works in the States.

If it is not deemed too "off topic", could anyone help educate me re the above?

It wasn't me, but you could start reading here:

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_law"]Lemon law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@<title>Lemon law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</title>@@AMEPARAM@@Lemon law[/ame].

And 'problem' cars do get bought back in the UK too - IIRC at least one 500 affected by this issue has been returned to the supplying dealer for a full refund.

 

[stevebrass]

The whole reflects appallingly on the Fiat brand. Even if they are reluctant to admit there is an issue with these cars they might have the decency to do all they can to help people who have been affected.

Perhaps the MD of Fiat UK might care to explain his thinking on the topic (I think it was a he last I heard, apologies if otherwise!) or even better drive one of the problem vehicles.

 

[ahmett]

JR - or possibly someone else - mentioned how this situation would not exist in the States.

Now I understood that consumer law re car buying had improved in this country. I really don't know how it works in the States.

If it is not deemed too "off topic", could anyone help educate me re the above?

us has a better legal system and consumers are more aware of it. thats one of the reasons why fiat was out of the US market for so long, US consumers would not stand their rubbish.

its also ironic that they do not sell the dualogic gearbox or the Euro 6 1.2 in the States, two of the most annoying things in the Fiat repertoire = )

oh and it was me that brought up the US thing = )

Oh and have a look at this - > [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_action"]Class action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@<title>Class action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</title>@@AMEPARAM@@Class action[/ame] , which is mostly a US thing and basically means whoever is affected by this issue can join forces and sue Fiat jointly really easily for many many $$$$.

 

[rkt2003]

There is a general lesson to be learned here, I think, which applies to pretty much anything of significance you might be considering buying:

Do not assume that the latest version of anything will be better than, or even as good as, the version it replaced.

I've noticed an ever-increasing number of products which just don't seem to be as functional, or as well made, or as durable, as the ones that came before. Environmenal issues, health & safety & the relentless quest for cheapness have all contributed to a general downward slide in the quality of most anything you can buy.

Relying on a good experience of past performance is, sadly, often a recipe for dissatisfaction.

:Offtopic:

I am currently tearing my hair out to find a 'long lasting' path weedkiller which will actually keep the pesky things out of my block paving for more than a fortnight.

Expensive but good reviews ...other brands are available lol
Rosate 36 Very Strong Glyphosate Weedkiller - Kills The Weeds & The Roots!: Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors

 

[FinFerNan]

ab4444 as has been said, this is an unbelievable situation made worse by what appears to be total incompetence.

But I am a little confused here. If the ECU needs replacing OR it needs a re-flash, then surely neither of these tasks need 4 (or now more) days to complete.

What are they playing at?

PS - Really hope your next post is some good news

 

[ahmett]

ab4444 as has been said, this is an unbelievable situation made worse by what appears to be total incompetence.

But I am a little confused here. If the ECU needs replacing OR it needs a re-flash, then surely neither of these tasks need 4 (or now more) days to complete.

What are they playing at?

PS - Really hope your next post is some good news

imagine they have to replace the engine = )

 

[rkt2003]

ab4444 as has been said, this is an unbelievable situation made worse by what appears to be total incompetence.

But I am a little confused here. If the ECU needs replacing OR it needs a re-flash, then surely neither of these tasks need 4 (or now more) days to complete.

What are they playing at?

PS - Really hope your next post is some good news

Just my opinion but i hope that by taking 4 days they are fully testing the car and making sure everything is perfect before handing it back lets hope so

 

[zanes]

ab4444 as has been said, this is an unbelievable situation made worse by what appears to be total incompetence.

But I am a little confused here. If the ECU needs replacing OR it needs a re-flash, then surely neither of these tasks need 4 (or now more) days to complete.

What are they playing at?

PS - Really hope your next post is some good news

I thought ab4444 had been told the update was not going to be available for their car until April, hence (after persistence) the hire car until then, or whenever it is actually available.

I wonder if the update previously released is not as effective as FIAT hoped, or that they are having to go through some recertification.

 

[FinFerNan]

Zanes - Sorry I did not intend to confuse things. If ab4444 was told April, then I see why her car is going to be with Fiat for such a long time.

ahmett and rkt - As for talk of new engines and detailed checks........... You're kidding right?

 

[ahmett]

Zanes - Sorry I did not intend to confuse things. If ab4444 was told April, then I see why her car is going to be with Fiat for such a long time.

ahmett and rkt - As for talk of new engines and detailed checks........... You're kidding right?

you never know = )

 

[FinFerNan]

you never know = )

Well, that's true of course.

But I'm willing to take a wild guess that there will be no new engines being fitted

 

[ahmett]

Well, that's true of course.

But I'm willing to take a wild guess that there will be no new engines being fitted

whatever causes fiat to lose more money = )

 

[FinFerNan]

OK, at the risk of being shot down.........

Does anyone think getting an aftermarket remap is an idea worthy of consideration?

Please don't tell me about "Warranties" and "Insurance" etc I already know it could affect them. And of course I know the obvious answer is "Why should we?"

I'm just asking if anyone thinks it might solve the problem.

 

[jrkitching]

OK, at the risk of being shot down.........

Does anyone think getting an aftermarket remap is an idea worthy of consideration?

Please don't tell me about "Warranties" and "Insurance" etc I already know it could affect them. And of course I know the obvious answer is "Why should we?"

I'm just asking if anyone thinks it might solve the problem.

If this issue could be definitively fixed with just a simple remap, surely Fiat would have done this by now? After all, they must have far more resources and test equipment at their disposal than an aftermarket garage with a rolling road. Also, Fiat have a huge head start in that they know every detail of what's different about the Euro6 engine, whilst we're all just speculating and guessing.

I'm thinking there must be much more to it than this; it'll be interesting to find out the real cause when (if) the whole story finally comes out.

 

[Mercky]

I suspect their difficulty could be providing a fix AND keeping it Euro 6 compliant.

 

[ahmett]

I suspect their difficulty could be providing a fix AND keeping it Euro 6 compliant.

i think the 1.2 fire engine is dead = ) Its been long enough at 30 years! May be a decent engine, but with Euro Commies hugging the trees more and more, i think its RIP.

 

[FinFerNan]

I suspect their difficulty could be providing a fix AND keeping it Euro 6 compliant.

I suspect you're spot on. Which is why I'm not sure we are actually going to get a proper fix.

Can't help wondering how would Fiat deal with the fallout of having sold all of these cars that would be in a higher RFL Band AFTER they have been fixed. If anyone thinks they (Fiat) are in a pickle now, just imagine how tough that would be to deal with.

However, my central question still remains. Would a "back street" re-map fix this issue? I reckon it would.

 

[Mercky]

I suspect you're spot on. Which is why I'm not sure we are actually going to get a proper fix.

Can't help wondering how would Fiat deal with the fallout of having sold all of these cars that would be in a higher RFL Band AFTER they have been fixed. If anyone thinks they (Fiat) are in a pickle now, just imagine how tough that would be to deal with.

However, my central question still remains. Would a "back street" re-map fix this issue? I reckon it would.

very possibly but i think there may also be a bit of voodoo going on with clutch potentiometers etc which may not be that straightforward to work around

 

[FinFerNan]

very possibly but i think there may also be a bit of voodoo going on with clutch potentiometers etc which may not be that straightforward to work around

Mmm, good point. Did the Euro 5 have the clutch "voodoo" treatment, do you know?

My guess is that Fiat have tried a Euro 6 compliant re-map which may have helped a little (ie on Auditt's car) and are struggling to effect a proper fix without breaching Euro 6.

Why else would it take so long to sort?