Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

[306maxi]

and more bs. The Feb price list lists euro 5 models separately with the same emissions per km. So the change happened earlier than may.....

The mvs codes change, but I've never seen any evidence of these on an actual car. But seeing as though the car I had yesterday had a different instrument cluster then I think it's fairly safe to assume that it's a Euro 6 car.

 

[MrDerv]

Same on both engines

Nads, rules that one out then


On a side note, I'd love to know why Fiat asked Watchdog not to publish their statement online? Incidentally, i don't think it was mentioned on the show neither? They know there's an issue, no-one would go to that extent of hiding a statement if there wasn't a problem

 

[306maxi]

it's fiat, their customer service is effing useless

 

[rkt2003]

Yes this euro 6 mystery could be the exact thing it is not if it makes sense ,i have looked all over the internet this morning ,even Fiat on the website have the engines down as euro 5+ assuming they mean 6 is arriving soon ie December on wards, ,
,so lies the problem it could be certain Euro 5 cars only which is why many of us Maxi ,Jr kitching etc believe its a quality control issue as every car is not affected ,possible 200-300 at a guess only ,enough for a recall but until Fiat track this down ,not likely at the moment unfortunately for those who have a 500 like this ,remember some of us on here have been here many years we try to help in different ways ,arguing wont help any of us ,yes frustrating as it is and i`m sure it is ,let`s hope someone gets to the bottom of this soon .

 

[306maxi]

I just wish someone who is affected would actually take a video or let someone else drive their car......

I rather suspect that I could see the issue within 5 minutes of driving the car. Anyone in the North Wales or Chester area who is affected?

 

[Novo]

Fiat lists all petrol engines as Euro 6 in new brochure. Diesel is 5+.
Regarding the recent post about the wiring recall, it lists cars effected as built up to 8th July 2014 and VIN ZFA3120000J000001 to ZFA3120000J201532. I just checked VIN on my daughters new 500 (got it this week) and the VIN is 50,000 higher. So does this mean it was built well after 8th July therefore a Euro 6 engine?

 

[poggy]

I don't think anybody is arguing, it's a different approach to the problem. Having been here since 2003 I know that people have a difference of opinion sometimes.

I agree it could be Euro 5 cars, but surely it makes sense to exclude the most simple thing first. Euro 6 or not ?.

Sometimes new developments are introduced without any mention of it earlier than the release day. I am sorry Maxi but it is not safe at all to assume that a new dash makes it Euro 6, can you not ask the person you borrowed it from to find out. It would be a great way to know if there is a difference.

 

[306maxi]

I think it's a fairly safe assumption though, not cast iron I'll admit, but still safe.

Fiat only tend to change something like the instruments with a MY update as they did with the launch of the tft display.

I didn't want to ask too many questions as I was test-driving a car and the moment you say that you've got no intention of buying a car at all then people start getting annoyed with you

If someone is able to work out a build date from a reg then I am more than happy to supply that, but I don't want to go posting it on a public forum for various reasons

 

[306maxi]

Oh and Poggy, there are some people who are arguing sadly. At the end of the day I just want to identify the issue and work out how to best help people. I've no vested interest in proving that it's all euro 6 cars or just a small amount of cars.

I do get annoyed though when people start interpreting my video in silly ways for their own agenda.

 

[Ralf S.]

Theoretically, the only way to know a Euro-6 spec' car is from the engine number or implicity from the car's manufacture date... you'd assume that all 1.2's from "the date" when E6 started onwards would be Euro-6 engined. They wouldn't mix them or chop and change on the production line.

The website, brochures, forecourts and showrooms will have a mix of E5 and E6 cars, brochures and descriptins. Depending on the car's spec' and prodution date and all sorts.. E5 and E6 will get mixed up and registered at different times. You can't say a "64" plate *must* be E6 for example.

It *may* be that all Model year X onwards.... with revised dash, instruments, wheels, colours etc. are all E6... but if there's a few E5 engines in the pipeline, they could feasibly be fitted to an Model Year X car... no reason not to, if it's still legal. Only the engine number cut-off is reliable.

If E6 is compulsory from September 2015 or whenever, Fiat would still be introducing E6 cars now... (it could be they have chance to do that, rather than commit to making more E5 engined cars which they would be under pressure to sell before the cut-off date).

What engine number introduced E6.. and are the affected cars all post- that engine number, or do earlier engine numbers also have the problem?


Ralf S.

 

[306maxi]

The cutoff will be from one date, Fiat won't be feeding the euro 6 engines in in a haphazard manner.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I appreciate the effort you went to, but if it isn't a Euro 6 engine it doesn't really give a definitive answer.

And even more interestingly, if its not the euro 6 engine, but seems to have the same issues according to Palma500s which is why Maxi was 'ragging' it then is there actually any issue at all

 

[306maxi]

I wasn't ragging it! It's a steep hill!

 

[Palma500s]

And even more interestingly, if its not the euro 6 engine, but seems to have the same issues according to @Palma500s which is why Maxi was 'ragging' it then is there actually any issue at all

Now I never actually said that did I?
What I said was that the videos show Maxi over revving and wheel spinning 2 different cars up a hill in the rain .Whilst this may have been fun for Maxi in actual fact it proves absolutely nothing for either side of the argument. Can we tell if either car suffers from any issue whilst being driven in this manner and conditions? No we can not.

 

[306maxi]

Get off your high horse! You complain that your car can't get up a steep hill, I got two cars up a VERY steep hill with no issues and they had MORE THAN ENOUGH torque. Torque is the issue here and there was an excess of torque.

You seem to forget that it was on a bend so the wheel was turned, it's a recipe for wheelspin.

You have a car with a problem, neither of the cars in the video have a problem getting up hills.

Deal with it.

 

[306maxi]

I dont think ours has enough power to spin the wheels even on a wet road!

Auditt, was this a genuine reply? I feel it was, but Palma seems to want to interpret everything his way. Please confirm.

 

[Palma500s]

Get off your high horse! You complain that your car can't get up a steep hill, I got two cars up a VERY steep hill with no issues and they had MORE THAN ENOUGH torque. Torque is the issue here and there was an excess of torque.

You seem to forget that it was on a bend so the wheel was turned, it's a recipe for wheelspin.

You have a car with a problem, neither of the cars in the video have a problem getting up hills.

Deal with it.

Do try and calm down there's a good chap.
Now, you are quite wrong in your above comment. I believe any Fiat 1.2 Eu6 or otherwise could go up the hill in the manner that you drove it. i.e. Over revving and wheel spinning. However I happen to believe a new car should be able to be driven in a more sedate fashion and still go up that hill. Therefore whilst I appreciate your time and effort I'm afraid it appears to have been time wasted.
Should you wish to repeat your experiment perhaps you might choose a dry day and a straight hill.
Also the issue here is not just about torque but torque at low revs. Perhaps you need to refresh your memory by revisiting some previous posts.

 

[306maxi]

Do you know the road? No. Were you there? No. Are you telling me (thee person who was actually there) how to drive? Yes

Get off your high horse.

 

[306maxi]

and it wasn't over revving.... I think I only revved it to about 2250-2500 rpm. Hardly over revving. It's a small engines car and it's never going to pull itself up a steep hill on idle revs.

 

[muttleysdad]

If you still have access to it, can you please have a look up in the drivers footwell and see if you can find the supposed clutch position sensor - some photos of that area might be interesting.

Hi Jrkitching.
I've attached some photos of the clutch position sensor, as requested. They're not brilliant due to the restrictions under the dash and it's right behind the steering column.
You can see the peg on the side of the Clutch pedal arm and the yellow plastic slot cam that it moves when the clutch is depressed.
This is definitely what gives the little throttle blip when you lift the clutch pedal, disconnect it and the blip stops.
Euro 6? euro 5? who knows after the recent posts I've been reading.