General Engine swap on a 4x4 multijet 80hp

[tomdee]

Hi, my panda is currently "out of order" since I had a problem with the timing chain which got loose and riped part of the oil pump and caused crankshaft failure... Now I need a new (used) engine to replace the old one. The problem is that it is quite a challenge to find an exact model of this engine (312A8000).

This said, I'd like to know if there are other engines compatible for this. I found a lot of 199A9000 used engines but I don't have enough confidence to buy one knowing that it could not be compatible. On the other hand used engine dealers cannot seem to help with this doubt as well. They ask for the engine number and license plate and then say that they don't have any of that to sell.

Any help is trully appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi

199 are from the punto

312 is the panda body code

Get on a part site and compare major component numbers..

By suspicion is that the core motor..DPF variant..
Will be identical..

(its the swappable ancilliaries that may differ for packaging)

 

[tomdee]

Hi

199 are from the punto

312 is the panda body code

Get on a part site and compare major component numbers..

By suspicion is that the core motor..DPF variant..
Will be identical..

(its the swappable ancilliaries that may differ for packaging)

Thanks for your input.

I found on the internet some folks saying that the 199A9000 is compatible with the 312A8000, but like I said, no one ensured me of that.
I don't want to spend money on an engine and have the expense to dissassemble and reassemble it for nothing.

 

[murphyv310]

What about the multijet unit in the 2012+ Doblo? As has been said the base unit must be the same. I'd be inclined to examine mounting points, gearbox fitment and just make sure provisions for the ancillary parts are the same. Remember GM use the same unit too.

 

[varesecrazy]

Or..

Replace the parts in YOUR OWN ENGINE..

Then you KNOW it will all work

( due to body corrosion.. long damp winters.. FIAT cars dont live long in the UK.. so a 10 year old car.. still running well will be @€300 - £250

Dry and Sunny areas of Europe will look at a 10 year old FIAT differently

 

[murphyv310]

Or..

Replace the parts in YOUR OWN ENGINE..

Then you KNOW it will all work

( due to body corrosion.. long damp winters.. FIAT cars dont live long in the UK.. so a 10 year old car.. still running well will be @€300 - £250

Dry and Sunny areas of Europe will look at a 10 year old FIAT differently

.

Hi I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with your comments.
To source a crankshaft, camshaft, no doubt valves, pistons, a possible head and the other damaged parts to rebuild the existing engine make absolutely no sense at all, for all we know there could be damage to the block. The costs would be very high and then there is the availability issues.
Look for a good secondhand engine and swap the ancillaries over.

To say a 10 year old Fiat is worth £300 is nonsense.

This area of Scotland cover the roads in salt and grit even when no frost is forecast, they spread mega tons here. There are plenty of 2005 Panda's and Punto's that are in very good condition here. The Panda rusts far less than Fords and the rot box Honda CRV, when did you last look under a Nissan Juke and others?

 

[tomdee]

Well, repairing this engine is not worth it. As far as the mechanic told me it could there be harm on the pistons/cylinders, cranckshaft, etc... Remember there was steel and aluminum "floating" around and inside the engine. The block beliw, next to the crankshaft is damaged inside with some holes poked due the break of the crankarm on one piston.

Thanks for your replies.

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

Or..

Replace the parts in YOUR OWN ENGINE..

Then you KNOW it will all work

( due to body corrosion.. long damp winters.. FIAT cars dont live long in the UK.. so a 10 year old car.. still running well will be @€300 - £250

Dry and Sunny areas of Europe will look at a 10 year old FIAT differently

Hi Varesecrazy. Is a 2018 car really going to suffer from serious body corrosion in a few years in UK?
As a comparatively new Fiat owner I was under the impression Fiats were pretty rust proof in the body. I have treated the subframes with a Bilt Hamber wax product which has given me goodprotection in the past on other machines.

 

[murphyv310]

Hi Varesecrazy. Is a 2018 car really going to suffer from serious body corrosion in a few years in UK?
As a comparatively new Fiat owner I was under the impression Fiats were pretty rust proof in the body. I have treated the subframes with a Bilt Hamber wax product which has given me goodprotection in the past on other machines.

Absolutely not.
My 2014 Panda lounge was from a coastal town (Stevenston) and was rust free, in fact the front discs had suffered most. I've seen many 2012 Panda's that look perfect to me and one I did look closely at when it was 7 years old was again spot on.
Perhaps I should offer Varesecrazy £200 for his Panda!!!

 

[varesecrazy]

Absolutely not.
My 2014 Panda lounge was from a coastal town (Stevenston) and was rust free, in fact the front discs had suffered most. I've seen many 2012 Panda's that look perfect to me and one I did look closely at when it was 7 years old was again spot on.
Perhaps I should offer Varesecrazy £200 for his Panda!!!

If you want my old mj.. yes thats fine

I was trying to get the point across that a 10+ year old FIAT..in the UK

Will be worth very little compared to a Portuguese..Italian.. etc FIAT

SO motors here are CHEAP by comparison..

You can buy a running mj for the prices I quoted..

I 'sold' mine for £400 a year ago.. 100k FSH.. an MOT Failure will be dirt cheap

A fiorino owner wasted a LOT on a poor engine.. then had their own rebuilt to rescue the vehicle

 

[varesecrazy]

My suggestion of comparing major components :

When I needed a Lampredi crank repaired.. the place had 1 in stock .. but flywheel mount was 4 holes.. not 5


When I needed a FIRE engine.. the Coupe Specialist told me what the £100 engine needed..
Swap over my manifolds and flywheel..

Great car that was.. you can save yours too..

But will involve a ratio of
your time : your money

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi Varesecrazy. Is a 2018 car really going to suffer from serious body corrosion in a few years in UK?
As a comparatively new Fiat owner I was under the impression Fiats were pretty rust proof in the body. I have treated the subframes with a Bilt Hamber wax product which has given me goodprotection in the past on other machines.

Hi Colin

Far from it.. poor crash tepairs tend to be the only rust..

But perception os that it will crumble.. like a 70's.. to 1984 car

You compare residuals on a Golf to a Bravo.. thats the UK market for you

We had our 2004 panda for 15 years..

VERY tidy car.. worth very little..

But a Polish guy bought it without haggling..as he could see its worth..

Where my punto diesels fall down ..
It the same build as a Vauxhall Corsa..

So suspension.. DASH heater unit..Diesel engine all identical

But Corsa is worth double

I now have 3 of these mj's and a twinair

List was £16k.. paid £12k

At 2years old.. worth £5k
At 3 " " " £3.5k

So here we are nearly 7 years later..

Worth very little.. but its the best car I own..

Wifes panda TA is good.. but tight motor and the 5 speed gearbox just make it hard work..

Weve taken the panda from 10k to 20k...

You can feel the improvements..

But still disappointing compared to the punto

Charlie

 

[2668GRIFFIN]

If you want my old mj.. yes thats fine

I was trying to get the point across that a 10+ year old FIAT..in the UK

Will be worth very little compared to a Portuguese..Italian.. etc FIAT

SO motors here are CHEAP by comparison..

You can buy a running mj for the prices I quoted..

I 'sold' mine for £400 a year ago.. 100k FSH.. an MOT Failure will be dirt cheap

A fiorino owner wasted a LOT on a poor engine.. then had their own rebuilt to rescue the vehicle

Hi
I was that Fiorino owner
There is no way in a million years I would buy a second hand engine again
Don't buy a second hand engine unless you see the engine running first
I was told that the one I was sent hand done under 50k but on inspection it was more like over 100k and in a poorer condition than mine
At the end of the day spend your money on a reconditioned engine
Luigi

 

[murphyv310]

I've bought used engines in the past. Two out of three were fine.
I bought a Skoda S110R engine from a car with 6k miles on the clock and it was perfect. I also bought a Subaru Legacy 2.2 litre engine to replace the 1.8 in the car I had that I was tuning, it again was perfect with 57k on its clock.
The worst one was a Ford Kent 1.1L it was in a bad state but I had no idea of the mileage as it was out of the car.

The moral of the story is get one from a car with the engine installed still, get the breaker to confirm the mileage or try and contact the previous owner a decent breaker would normally oblige, avoid rolled cars as in some instances the engine can still run but sufferes oil starvation. Again be careful with frontal impacts on the vehicle, its a case of being sensible with used engines. Fortunately most modern engines are long lived unless there is a catastrophic failure.

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

Hi Colin

Far from it.. poor crash tepairs tend to be the only rust..

But perception os that it will crumble.. like a 70's.. to 1984 car

You compare residuals on a Golf to a Bravo.. thats the UK market for you

We had our 2004 panda for 15 years..

VERY tidy car.. worth very little..

But a Polish guy bought it without haggling..as he could see its worth..

Where my punto diesels fall down ..
It the same build as a Vauxhall Corsa..

So suspension.. DASH heater unit..Diesel engine all identical

But Corsa is worth double

I now have 3 of these mj's and a twinair

List was £16k.. paid £12k

At 2years old.. worth £5k
At 3 " " " £3.5k

So here we are nearly 7 years later..

Worth very little.. but its the best car I own..

Wifes panda TA is good.. but tight motor and the 5 speed gearbox just make it hard work..

Weve taken the panda from 10k to 20k...

You can feel the improvements..

But still disappointing compared to the punto

Charlie

Charlie
Thanks for that. This is probablly the last new car (or indeed any car) that I shall buy, so if it doesn't rot, at the rate i am using it, (7700 miles in about 2 1/2 years) it will see me out. Also nice to know that it is likely to free up more and become even more fun then I am happy.

 

[tomdee]

I've bought used engines in the past. Two out of three were fine.
I bought a Skoda S110R engine from a car with 6k miles on the clock and it was perfect. I also bought a Subaru Legacy 2.2 litre engine to replace the 1.8 in the car I had that I was tuning, it again was perfect with 57k on its clock.
The worst one was a Ford Kent 1.1L it was in a bad state but I had no idea of the mileage as it was out of the car.

The moral of the story is get one from a car with the engine installed still, get the breaker to confirm the mileage or try and contact the previous owner a decent breaker would normally oblige, avoid rolled cars as in some instances the engine can still run but sufferes oil starvation. Again be careful with frontal impacts on the vehicle, its a case of being sensible with used engines. Fortunately most modern engines are long lived unless there is a catastrophic failure.

Still looking for an engine.
The engine will be used and with at least 6 month warranty.
The main issue right now is to find a compatible engine. No one gave me a consistent reply on that.

I was hoping to have the Panda ready before the end of the year but it seems hard for that

 

[murphyv310]

Still looking for an engine.
The engine will be used and with at least 6 month warranty.
The main issue right now is to find a compatible engine. No one gave me a consistent reply on that.

I was hoping to have the Panda ready before the end of the year but it seems hard for that

Personally I'd look at the basic engine if it's in another model.
Take lots of photos from every possible angle, take measurements and compare with the Panda. Injectors and ancillaries can be simply swapped make sure sensor positioning is the same, I'm pretty sure that the basic unit will be the same, manifolds and other bolt on items may differ including clutch and crankshaft pulley again take lots of photos.

 

[tomdee]

New year, old problem. Still waiting for a compatible engine for the panda. I believe I'll have it ready before the end of the month.

 

[tomdee]

Anyway, here's the Panda, back when it was healthy

 

[tomdee]

And we have a match
Found a "new" engine for the panda. Refurbished with 0 km and 1 year warranty (no limit of km). Assembly will be made next week. I'm so anxious right now, seems like the day I saw the panda for the first time and purchased it (had to wait almost a week)