End of free NHS treatment for the delibrerately unhealthy?

[GeordieCal]

Includes those who smoke, drink too much, and eat too much, among others:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23867394-unhealthy-to-be-denied-medical-treatment.do

There are warnings printed on the side of cigarette packets, and people know what happens if you stuff your face with food and dont excersise.
If a person ignores these warnings and has to deal with the consequences, it is THEIR OWN FAULT, and they shouldnt get help for something they have been warned about time and time again.

There are genuinly sick people in this country, people who are sick through no fault of their own, who are feeling the effect of the reduced budgets due to lazy, stupid people.

Boils my **** right down it really does.
Also, something needs to be done about the benefits system.
A couple of months ago I was outside a supermarket, and there was this massive fat bloke bragging to his friend about how he'd been given a disabled badge, just because he's gotton himself into a massive fat state.
I have a friend who was born with a disability, and when people take the ****, it makes me absolutely SICK!

Discuss lol.

 

[ChrisUK]

I doubt it they won't be able to treat half the frigging country.

 

[Focus Owner]

so the sick will never be treated by the hospitals again

 

[ben]

Does this mean that the patient just has to pay for treatment? Or if you're ill for smoking, you're just fubbared?

 

[Modette]

I have always felt that people with smoking, recreational drug or alcohol related illness and diseases should NOT get free health care. They make an informed choice when they use these substances. BUT, there have been cases where people have died from throat and lung cancer from passive smoking - also smoking related, they just weren't the ones doing the smoking. Roy Castle springs to mind.

Obesity is not quite so clear cut, many children these days are obese due to how they have been raised - that isnt their fault its their parents and even in adulthood it can be hard to break the habits of a lifetime. People with limited mobility can become obese along with diabetics, and those with thyroid issues, certain medications like steroids for arthritis can cause huge weight gain etc, so drawing a clear line would be very hard - its a huge grey area.

I would also take anything I overheard in a public place with a pinch of salt. People will share the info that they WANT to share and that isnt always the truth. Pride is strange thing, some people would rather have someone think that they are overweight than admit they are arthritic, diabetic, suffering from clinical depression etc.

I used to live next door to a guy for ten years. He was on the dole, in his thirties and still lived with his mum. I saw him sit around drinking, smoking weed and playing his music loud all day for TEN YEARS. I thought he was a waster. I used to tease him and ask him when he was going to grow up and get a job. About three weeks before I moved I found out he was epileptic and had fits so frequently that he couldnt hold down a job. You just never know.....

 

[custard]

TBH i think the 1st area they should look at are drug addicts and alchoholics who dependant on the state for income
ive seen mention that addicts/alcholics can get sickness benefits! and so arent required to work/look for work
thats where they should look first

 

[dave]

A couple of months ago I was outside a supermarket, and there was this massive fat bloke bragging to his friend about how he'd been given a disabled badge, just because he's gotton himself into a massive fat state.


Discuss lol.

no that was homer on the simpsons you getting mixed up.

some illness people might have got if they was a t total non smoker, so how they going to know if the smoke or drink caused something or not. will they stop treating brain tumours if people who get them use a mobile phone?

 

[T14086]

I have always felt that people with smoking, recreational drug or alcohol related illness and diseases should NOT get free health care. They make an informed choice when they use these substances. BUT, there have been cases where people have died from throat and lung cancer from passive smoking - also smoking related, they just weren't the ones doing the smoking. Roy Castle springs to mind.

What about the people who turn to drink in times of crisis? An old women that used to live next door to me was the perfect neighbour yet drank like a fish....why, because she lost her husband after a lifetime together. So she doesn't deserve medical help? A drunk on the streets wasn't always that way infact only after he came home & found his wife & kids killed. Drink was the only way he could cope....doesn't deserve medical help?

Kids getting fed loads of food is not their fault...so are the ones given drugs by their parents and yes it does happen. Also cigs, the kid (4 years old) recently in the paper hooked on nicotine.

Do we get a 'informed' choice when we intake pesticides, E numbers and all the other crap in our foods?

I know what your saying but as you stated 'You just never know.....' can also apply to drink/drug users. Each case is individual really. I smoked so i dont deserve medical help even though I have contributed 30 years of tax & national insurance unlike a large proportion of the country.


Didn't know Roy Castle died due to passive smoking (you sure about that) my dad never smoked yet had throat cancer and has always been in a smoke free house.

 

[sludgeguts]

Fine by me - but just make sure you stop taking all that money out of my wage packet which goes to funding the NHS.
In fact, I will also have my national insurance contributions back as well & I'll find someone else to insure me.

 

[Eynonz]

Well i agree with the drunk / drinking part..... mainly due to when my Grandfather was ill he had to wait to be treated due to the A&E being full of pissed people on a saturday night....

 

[Modette]

What about the people who turn to drink in times of crisis? An old women that used to live next door to me was the perfect neighbour yet drank like a fish....why, because she lost her husband after a lifetime together. So she doesn't deserve medical help? A drunk on the streets wasn't always that way infact only after he came home & found his wife & kids killed. Drink was the only way he could cope....doesn't deserve medical help?

Kids getting fed loads of food is not their fault...so are the ones given drugs by their parents and yes it does happen. Also cigs, the kid (4 years old) recently in the paper hooked on nicotine.

Do we get a 'informed' choice when we intake pesticides, E numbers and all the other crap in our foods?

I know what your saying but as you stated 'You just never know.....' can also apply to drink/drug users. Each case is individual really. I smoked so i dont deserve medical help even though I have contributed 30 years of tax & national insurance unlike a large proportion of the country.


Didn't know Roy Castle died due to passive smoking (you sure about that) my dad never smoked yet had throat cancer and has always been in a smoke free house.

I see your point, but if there wasnt so much cash being poured into the NHS (such as dealing with drunks in A&E on a saturday night), then there may be more resources available to help people like your neighbour with bereavement counselling, support systems etc. Its those services that are often the first to go when cutbacks are made. People are far more likely to turn to drink / drugs when it seems that there is nothing else.

I agree with your point about kids who are given drugs / cigarettes, I just used food as an example as that is more common than kids being given drugs by parents, but yes, it happens and kids should be entitled to free health care regardless.

With regard to the food additives, food labelling in this country is pretty good, I have spend a great deal of time in the USA and they really do not know what they are eating, you can taste the additives in a lot of stuff, even stuff that is labelled as pure or organic. In the case of diet I think the government could be doing a lot more to teach people about the dangers of eating refined sugars and processed foods. But the information is readily available - if you want to find it. But again, the kind of information services that promote healthy eating are also the first to go when cutbacks are made, because the system is so overstretched dealing with the consequences of drunks, junkies and poor lifestyle choices. Having said that, if you read my post I wasnt suggesting that healthcare is denied to this group of people....

In many cases, it isnt until disaster strikes (heart attack, stroke, diabetes) that people finally sit up and realise that their own lifestyle choices were the cause. In many cases its too late. My dad had a heart attack when I was 11, he changed his diet and lifestyle totally, gave up smoking, exercised, but he still died of a massive heart attack when I was 19. The damage was already done.

When you apply for private health cover or life insurance, you fill out a form that asks if you smoke, if you drink, if you are overweight etc and your answers are taken into account when calculating what you will be expected to pay.

Perhaps a compromise would be that the NHS does something similar, and people who CHOOSE to smoke either have to top up or have the option to not pay NI contributions and get private health cover instead. In fact maybe we should ALL have that option. Im not sure if you have ever looked at the cost of private health care but it can be WAY more expensive that what we pay in NI contributions, thats because its linked to the individual.

The fact that we all pay the same, yet some of us lead healthy lifestyles and rarely visit a doctor, while others have chronic self inflicted illness is not a fair system at all. If we were allowed the option of opting out of NI contributions and obtaining our own health care, then private health insurance would also become cheaper and more accessible, because there would be more money in the pot.

Look for Roy Castle on Wikipedia, he never smoked, but he worked for many years in working mens clubs inhaling smoke.

 

[johnson550]

Fine by me - but just make sure you stop taking all that money out of my wage packet which goes to funding the NHS.
In fact, I will also have my national insurance contributions back as well & I'll find someone else to insure me.

:yeahthat:

 

[T14086]

Well i agree with the drunk / drinking part..... mainly due to when my Grandfather was ill he had to wait to be treated due to the A&E being full of pissed people on a saturday night....

So very true, my answer to this is in repayment to the wasted time they have used up these pis*heads should be made to clean the corridors/morturary etc

I see your point, but if there wasnt so much cash being poured into the NHS (such as dealing with drunks in A&E on a saturday night), then there may be more resources available to help people like your neighbour with bereavement counselling, support systems etc. Its those services that are often the first to go when cutbacks are made. People are far more likely to turn to drink / drugs when it seems that there is nothing else.

True (as above) but what I dont understand is yeah go out for a drink and get a bit drunk (let you hair down etc) but some people go out to delibrately get slaughtered by a dangerous sometimes lethal mixture of drinks, they IMO deserve no help.

I agree with your point about kids who are given drugs / cigarettes, I just used food as an example as that is more common than kids being given drugs by parents, but yes, it happens and kids should be entitled to free health care regardless.

With regard to the food additives, food labelling in this country is pretty good, I have spend a great deal of time in the USA and they really do not know what they are eating, you can taste the additives in a lot of stuff, even stuff that is labelled as pure or organic. In the case of diet I think the government could be doing a lot more to teach people about the dangers of eating refined sugars and processed foods. But the information is readily available - if you want to find it. But again, the kind of information services that promote healthy eating are also the first to go when cutbacks are made, because the system is so overstretched dealing with the consequences of drunks, junkies and poor lifestyle choices. Having said that, if you read my post I wasnt suggesting that healthcare is denied to this group of people....

I remember a programme on food labeling in the USA, however another programme hinted that many use 'other ingredients' to hide banned or unhealthy additives.

In many cases, it isnt until disaster strikes (heart attack, stroke, diabetes) that people finally sit up and realise that their own lifestyle choices were the cause. In many cases its too late. My dad had a heart attack when I was 11, he changed his diet and lifestyle totally, gave up smoking, exercised, but he still died of a massive heart attack when I was 19. The damage was already done.

Sorry to hear this. But maybe his change of lifestyle let you spend a few more years together?

When you apply for private health cover or life insurance, you fill out a form that asks if you smoke, if you drink, if you are overweight etc and your answers are taken into account when calculating what you will be expected to pay.

Perhaps a compromise would be that the NHS does something similar, and people who CHOOSE to smoke either have to top up or have the option to not pay NI contributions and get private health cover instead. In fact maybe we should ALL have that option. Im not sure if you have ever looked at the cost of private health care but it can be WAY more expensive that what we pay in NI contributions, thats because its linked to the individual.

The fact that we all pay the same, yet some of us lead healthy lifestyles and rarely visit a doctor, while others have chronic self inflicted illness is not a fair system at all. If we were allowed the option of opting out of NI contributions and obtaining our own health care, then private health insurance would also become cheaper and more accessible, because there would be more money in the pot.

Look for Roy Castle on Wikipedia, he never smoked, but he worked for many years in working mens clubs inhaling smoke.

Celebrities come & go but when Roy died it was quite sad because although I never met him he was a big part in my growing up (record breakers etc) and I used to laugh that every film he was in he always managed to bring that bloody trumpet out

 

[Focus Owner]

in schools they teach you how to make pizza and biscuits.
nice and healthy foods

 

[ben]

Ah yes, cookie class

Dunno about the "turned to drink due to sadness, so it's not their fault bit" - as if you agree with that, you should also agree with "turned to drugs due to sadness, so it's not their fault" surely?

People who actively choose to smoke, should be lower down the hospital list I think than non-smokers. That's fair.

 

[Modette]

Sorry to hear this. But maybe his change of lifestyle let you spend a few more years together?


Quite possibly and it certainly made me value every day with him and take nothing for granted. It also makes me want to shake people sometimes. My dad was 41 when I was born, 60 when he passed in 1983. He fought in WW2. He came from an era when people really didnt have a clue about diet or the dangers of smoking.

Regardless of who picks up the bill for healthcare, I would give anything to have had my dad in my life for longer, for him to have met and been a Grandad to my sons, my first was born two years after he passed. All these years later I still feel that loss. In those days they didnt know any better but now they do and so many people STILL live like tomorrow is promised.

 

[dave]

People who actively choose to smoke, should be lower down the hospital list I think than non-smokers. That's fair.

an pill heads below that

 

[ben]

For sure. If what you're doing is going to affect you in a negative way which would require treatment, it's hardly fair you get seen *instead* of someone who has been good.

 

[T14086]

People who actively choose to smoke, should be lower down the hospital list I think than non-smokers. That's fair.

but alot of the older generation were encouraged to smoke through goverment propaganda.

I would give anything to have had my dad in my life for longer, for him to have met and been a Grandad to my sons, my first was born two years after he passed. All these years later I still feel that loss.

Why does life seems so unfair at times? I'm sure you Dad is looking down on you all with a big proud grin on his face:hug:

 

[dave]

how do you know who been good though? i know plenty of skinny people who eat crap, but when they get ill no one says its because of their crap diet so dont treat them