Technical EBD / ABS Failure - help please

[SolomonGrundy]

Before I go running to a Dealer or garage could I pass my problem before you gentlemen for advice.

I have a 2013 Fiat Ducato based MH with a 150 Multijet engine and around 25,000 miles on the clock.

We had been away a few days when on an initial start up in the morning a message appeared –'EBD failure – see handbook' and 'ABS unavailable – see handbook'

I checked under the bonnet (oil, fluids, etc) and under the vehicle but couldn't see any signs of a problem.

The motorhome engine seemed to be running okay and there was no obvious problem with the brakes.

Also the speedometer didn't work and the outside temperature display wasn't showing.

We drove home carefully and now need to decide whether it could be a minor problem (hopefully) or a real downer.

Have you had a similar problem and was it good or bad news?

Any help appreciated.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi.
Being an initial COLD start.. the extra drain could flag up 'unexpected voltage' from sensors starved of power.

The dead display is a little odd though...

Personally : I would disconnect the battery...giving it an overnight charge.. then reconnect and see what occurs.

Charlie . Oxford

 

[rayc]

The same problem on a Punto in the forum turned out to be a loose connection on an earth cable to the gearbox

 

[Stevo101]

Give it a good clean with a wire brush and emery paper slop on a bit of grease and see how she fairs.

 

[varesecrazy]

Give it a good clean with a wire brush and emery paper slop on a bit of grease and see how she fairs.

Cable connections..??

 

[Stevo101]

The earth strap. It is in the engine bay on the right, from the gearbox to the chassis. Take the bolts out and check the braided cable for corrosion and the same with bolts washers etc.

 

[SolomonGrundy]

Sorry for the delayed response but being in Hospital for a couple of days and needing recuperation wasn't expected when I first posted.

I've had it checked by a local garage today and the code is showing that the speed sensors are the problem.

But, after checking each sensor on test drives the sensors themselves show there is no problem with any of them.

So, is it more likely the instrument cluster is at fault and may need replacing ?

The vehicle is around 4 years old and shows very little sign of rusting anywhere on the Ducato base.

Any help appreciated

 

[jontee61]

with a bit of research you should find a lot of info regarding instrument clusters and replacement quite a lot of members have had similar problems and good luck with your recovery health wise.

 

[SolomonGrundy]

Today I've been to anindependent Fiat garage and they've done a diagnostic test.

They have narrowed itdown to either a Speed Sensor problem or the ABS Module being theculprit and advise taking it to a main Fiat dealer – but we allknow what that costs, don't we ?

If they have found whatit most probably causing problems then is it cheaper to change or possibly repairthe ABS Module and hope that sorts it out - or bite the bullet andtake it to the Main Fiat dealer and hope for the best ?

Any help appreciated.

 

[g8rpi]

If you want the ABS repaired try BBA Reman http://www.bba-reman.com/gb/index.aspx
They did a good job on a part for my Wife's Focus. Talk to them about it, they may be able to test it first.
Did you or the Garage check the earth lead(s) between engine/transmission and chassis? It is also worth cleaning under the ABS unit mounting bolts/bracket with a bit of emery cloth. Bad common connections can cause all sorts of problems that are hard to track down.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[Dobbin]

I agree with others with regard to checking on that earth cable first. It is a known problem.

 

[SolomonGrundy]

Thanks for all the replies and it's taken until yesterday to sort out the problem – this is what happened -

I took my Motorhome to an Independent Garage and they diagnosed a possible Speed Sensor problem (No charge) but suggested I get at least one more opinion.

I then went to an independent Fiat Dealer who diagnosed either Speed Sensor or ABS Unit Module (£25 for diagnostic check) – they weren't sure which.

And then to Sheepbridge Commercial Vehicle HGV/LGV Test and Repair centre in Chesterfield who checked the Speed Sensors and found no fault with them and the earth cable was checked and found to be okay (No charge).

The ABS Unit Module was then considered the 'villain' and prices to replace the unit were collected by Sheepbridge Commercial Vehicle Centre.

A local Motor Factor quoted £1,400 (I believe Fiat quote around £1800 plus Labour) and other online quotes were not much better, and some worse.

It was decided to have the unit tested and repaired, if possible, for considerably less than the quotes we obtained.

The unit was taken to ECUTESTING, Delves Road, Heanor – about 25 miles away – and I delivered it at about 3pm.

They kept me up-to-date of the progress of the unit at their Workshops during the next day and I received four text and email messages about its progress.

The last text and email indicated they had successfully completed the repair and I could pick the unit up after 4 pm that day – which I did.

A total of around 24 hours from delivery to collection is an extremely good service and their communication skills with the Customer puts most firms in the shade.

The charge for the testing and repair was £185 + vat - £222 in total and came with a Lifetime Warranty.

The unit was fitted yesterday afternoon by Sheepbridge Commercials, the dash now works as it should and the problem has been solved.

Sheepbridge Commercial have not only made an excellent job of sorting out the problem but have even washed down my Motorhome – many thanks to them.

Hope this helps other swho may have the same, or similar problems, with their Ducato based Motorhomes.

 

[Ocwobio]

A cracking result, and well done to the enterprises involved. This is the kind of post we need to see as it can really help others. So don't be shy with name'n'shame, or praise when justified!
cheers.

 

[SolomonGrundy]

I don't think there was anyone to 'shame', perhaps Fiat for the excessive prices of replacement parts and the Main Dealers who's hourly rates are so very high, but all the people who I dealt with were both helpful and efficient in their effort to help me sort out the problem.

The main two who's work and help managed to solve and eradicate the problem are -

ECUTESTING
Delves Road
Heanor
Derbyshire
DE75 7SJ
Tel – 01773 535638

SHEEPBRIDGE COMMERCIALS
Unit 9, ARMYTAGE INDEST,
STATION ROAD,
CHESTERFIELDS41 9ET
Tel - 01246 454658

Both have Websites.

I had not used either, or even heard of them, before having the problem but would certainly use them again if a similar situation arose.

 

[Dobbin]

Useful information, thank you. I recently had my ECU changed under warranty.

 

[Torq]

I'm a bit late to this party but here goes. When an abs pump controller fails you can often just swap in a second hand one with the same part number. Depending on how it's positioned in the vehicle you can sometimes do it without disturbing the hydraulic system, i've done this on a couple of bmw. If you remove the pump you will have to bleed it by running a priming cycle where the pump runs and all the valves are opened.

 

[SolomonGrundy]

Torq - about how much would a second hand one cost and how much guarantee, if any, would you get on it ?


A couple of hundred sounds expensive for a repair but not when compared to Fiats price of, so I've heard, between £1400 and £1800.


And the repaired one comes with a lifetime warranty.


Just asking.

 

[Torq]

Looking at ebay a second hand unit can cost anywhere from 35 upwards. I've usually paid e50 locally from a breaker. I don't have the local resources to get units reconditioned and would have to post somewhere adding extra cost and the time to turn around would be extended, I'd say 2 weeks from removal to refitting whereas my local breaker is 5mins away

I've never seen 2/h electronics offered with any warranty but any I have bought, air con controllers, abs pumps, airbag controllers etc have always lasted longer than I've owned the vehicle I've fitted them to.

What are the terms of the lifetime warranty, Is it for your ownership of the vehicle? If so it may be a safe bet for them as most people change vehicles every few years, not me though.

Electronics often fail from lack of use and reactivation kills them. I've seen it with air con controllers and abs pumps in cars I've left sitting for over a year, both fine when parked up, both faulty when recomissioned

I once left a bmw E30 sittiing for a year then it wouldn't start the day before I had a buyer coming to collect it. Turned over fine but no spark. On a hunch I took out the ECU, opened it and poured out a cup full of water. Dried it with a hair drier, refitted and the car fired up first turn, next day it drove 130 miles to it's new home.

 

[Nbywater]

I don't think there was anyone to 'shame', perhaps Fiat for the excessive prices of replacement parts and the Main Dealers who's hourly rates are so very high, but all the people who I dealt with were both helpful and efficient in their effort to help me sort out the problem.

The main two who's work and help managed to solve and eradicate the problem are -

ECUTESTING
Delves Road
Heanor
Derbyshire
DE75 7SJ
Tel – 01773 535638

SHEEPBRIDGE COMMERCIALS
Unit 9, ARMYTAGE INDEST,
STATION ROAD,
CHESTERFIELDS41 9ET
Tel - 01246 454658

Both have Websites.

I had not used either, or even heard of them, before having the problem but would certainly use them again if a similar situation arose.

Ducato 2012 250 model 130multijet

Had exactly the same symptoms, started intermittently for a couple of weeks, became permanent. So on return from my France holiday, did the usual diagnostic checks on sensors and voltages. All normal, so took the ABS ECU and pump unit out and took to ECU testing, and they confirmed the fault and rebuilt/repaired the ECU within 2 days and all now good again after re-install and system bleed.

Thanks for the post and link to ECU testing

£245 Inc VAT and a bottle of brake fluid at £8.50. easy enough job and much cheaper than dealer or even garage cost.