Technical Ducato door mirror/antenna.

[Philsmith57]

I am trying to source a replacement passenger side door mirror for a 2021 Ducato. I have found one with both blind spot mirror and main mirror heayed and electrically adjustable but I have been told by the dealer I purchased it from that the passenger side mirror has a DAB/FM radio antenna inside it. The cab has a conventional radio antenna on the roof just above the windscreen. I cannot seem to find a door mirror available with this option. Does anyone have knowledge/experience of this? Thanks.

 

[HughJampton]

It's not uncommon for Ducatos (particularly those used in Motorhome Conversions) to have the radio aerial(s) mounted in the nearside mirror. This link shows an example of the long-arm version.

Fits Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay Left Long Arm Mirror With DAB Aerial 14>

New Left Long Arm Mirror With DAB Aerial Fits Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer And Citroen Relay 2014-Onwards. With Electric Adjustment and Heating. Please Check Length Of The Arm Of Your Mirror As There Can Be More Than One Option Fitted To These Vehicles.

coastalmotorhomes.co.uk

They are reasonably available (in various arm lengths) BUT they add to the replacement expense, and it is quite possible/probable that if you have a roof aerial factory fitted that the mirror in question is simply a standard (aerial-less) one.

As you're obviously replacing, I'd suggest you remove or inspect the existing one and see what wiring and connectors it has. If you look at the link posted above, and select the appropriate thumbnail, the two separate DAB and FM aerial wires and connectors are obvious. The electrically heated/adjusted version without the aerial(s) has only the rectangular 8-way black connector.

 

[Philsmith57]

It's not uncommon for Ducatos (particularly those used in Motorhome Conversions) to have the radio aerial(s) mounted in the nearside mirror. This link shows an example of the long-arm version.

Fits Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay Left Long Arm Mirror With DAB Aerial 14>

New Left Long Arm Mirror With DAB Aerial Fits Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer And Citroen Relay 2014-Onwards. With Electric Adjustment and Heating. Please Check Length Of The Arm Of Your Mirror As There Can Be More Than One Option Fitted To These Vehicles.

coastalmotorhomes.co.uk

They are reasonably available (in various arm lengths) BUT they add to the replacement expense, and it is quite possible/probable that if you have a roof aerial factory fitted that the mirror in question is simply a standard (aerial-less) one.

As you're obviously replacing, I'd suggest you remove or inspect the existing one and see what wiring and connectors it has. If you look at the link posted above, and select the appropriate thumbnail, the two separate DAB and FM aerial wires and connectors are obvious. The electrically heated/adjusted version without the aerial(s) has only the rectangular 8-way black connector.

Thanks.

 

[Philsmith57]

It's not uncommon for Ducatos (particularly those used in Motorhome Conversions) to have the radio aerial(s) mounted in the nearside mirror. This link shows an example of the long-arm version.

Fits Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay Left Long Arm Mirror With DAB Aerial 14>

New Left Long Arm Mirror With DAB Aerial Fits Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer And Citroen Relay 2014-Onwards. With Electric Adjustment and Heating. Please Check Length Of The Arm Of Your Mirror As There Can Be More Than One Option Fitted To These Vehicles.

coastalmotorhomes.co.uk

They are reasonably available (in various arm lengths) BUT they add to the replacement expense, and it is quite possible/probable that if you have a roof aerial factory fitted that the mirror in question is simply a standard (aerial-less) one.

As you're obviously replacing, I'd suggest you remove or inspect the existing one and see what wiring and connectors it has. If you look at the link posted above, and select the appropriate thumbnail, the two separate DAB and FM aerial wires and connectors are obvious. The electrically heated/adjusted version without the aerial(s) has only the rectangular 8-way black connector.

Thnks for the reply. I have taken the back off the existing mirror but not removed it from the door yet as I am no expert with this kind of thing. Picture 1 shows the existing mirror with the back removed and 14 cables going into varous parts of the mirror. The aftermarket mirrror I had purchased (possiby by mistake) has only an 8 cable connector as you mentioned in your reply. Is it possibe to tell what the difference might be between the two mirrors from the visible wiring. Would I be right in assuming that those 14 cables are unlikely to terminate in an 8 cable connector?

 

[HughJampton]

I'm away from home at the moment, so access for research isn't easy.
That looks more like a RH mirror ;-) (passenger side only on LHD) unless it's upside down.
I agree, it looks like the wiring is more than just electrically heated/adjusted. The common additions are; power fold (you'll know if your original has that); aerials (dab and/or FM); and temperature sensor (normally revealed by a small "nipple" on the underside of the mirror, and that's driver's side, certainly on RHD, but I think LHD also).
TBH, to be sure you need to unmount the mirror and look at the terminations. (I've replaced a 2018 version with temp sensor, and for that year the connections were revealed by removing the window switch unit).
If I were to guess, then I think your dealer may be correct, and the additional wiring might be dab/FM aerial, but I certainly wouldn't bet on it without seeing the termination plugs

 

[HughJampton]

Forget the comment about it looking like a RH mirror. I was viewing on a 'phone and got it rather round my neck.

Whether left or right hand drive, AFAIK the passenger mirror will be a combination of electric(heated), powerfold, and aerial (dab and/or fm) with any permutation fitted. The driver's side is similar, but with temp sensor instead of aerials. (i.e. there is a reverse fitting for LHD/RHD).

Assuming this (and you don't have powerfold) then any additional in your mirror, if there is any, would be aerial. Whilst it may not be obvious, there isn't anything that looks like an aerial lead (or two) in your picture. If, as you say, you have an original roof aerial that is not entirely surprising.

Now, re the visible wiring. It appears to be a set going to each of the upper and lower mirror. (and I can only pick out 12 wires). Patently, vehicles with only electric( and heated) function work off an 8-way connector, but separately via a shared, switchable joystick for the upper and lower part. Looking at your picture, I would guess that each mirror has a wire for L/R, Up/Down, motor earth, heating live and heating earth. There is also the indicator. I have a suspicion that the 8-way is split in the loom, with heating live/earth split and common to both mirrors, L/R and Up/Down likewise, motor earth being separate to each mirror (and selected at the joystick, meaning only the selected mirror moves). Separate live and earth for the indicator makes it an 8-way connection.

That might not be exactly right in breakdown, but the principle is correct. If it is correct or close, I suspect you do currently have the 8-way (but the only way of knowing is to remove the mirror).

I'm sure there's a YouTube video describing the removal.

BTW, the fitted indicators come in two types, with different wattage bulbs. If you get the wrong one it can throw the Canbus. Your existing unit looks complete, so if there are problems it's an easy substitution.

 

[Philsmith57]

Forget the comment about it looking like a RH mirror. I was viewing on a 'phone and got it rather round my neck.

Whether left or right hand drive, AFAIK the passenger mirror will be a combination of electric(heated), powerfold, and aerial (dab and/or fm) with any permutation fitted. The driver's side is similar, but with temp sensor instead of aerials. (i.e. there is a reverse fitting for LHD/RHD).

Assuming this (and you don't have powerfold) then any additional in your mirror, if there is any, would be aerial. Whilst it may not be obvious, there isn't anything that looks like an aerial lead (or two) in your picture. If, as you say, you have an original roof aerial that is not entirely surprising.

Now, re the visible wiring. It appears to be a set going to each of the upper and lower mirror. (and I can only pick out 12 wires). Patently, vehicles with only electric( and heated) function work off an 8-way connector, but separately via a shared, switchable joystick for the upper and lower part. Looking at your picture, I would guess that each mirror has a wire for L/R, Up/Down, motor earth, heating live and heating earth. There is also the indicator. I have a suspicion that the 8-way is split in the loom, with heating live/earth split and common to both mirrors, L/R and Up/Down likewise, motor earth being separate to each mirror (and selected at the joystick, meaning only the selected mirror moves). Separate live and earth for the indicator makes it an 8-way connection.

That might not be exactly right in breakdown, but the principle is correct. If it is correct or close, I suspect you do currently have the 8-way (but the only way of knowing is to remove the mirror).

I'm sure there's a YouTube video describing the removal.

BTW, the fitted indicators come in two types, with different wattage bulbs. If you get the wrong one it can throw the Canbus. Your existing unit looks complete, so if there are problems it's an easy substitution.

Thanks for taking the time for such a detailed reply. It's starting to make a bit more sense. The unit is LH, manual folding with heated and electrically adjustable upper and lower mirrors operated by a 4 position joystick. I can see how the multiple colours of the same cable could terminate in an 8 way connector now. The indicator is a WY16W Bulb which the aftermarket supplier checked agains the van Reg No. so I think that should be OK. I will salvage the existing indicator unit for potential future use ;-)

 

[Philsmith57]

Thanks for taking the time for such a detailed reply. It's starting to make a bit more sense. The unit is LH, manual folding with heated and electrically adjustable upper and lower mirrors operated by a 4 position joystick. I can see how the multiple colours of the same cable could terminate in an 8 way connector now. The indicator is a WY16W Bulb which the aftermarket supplier checked agains the van Reg No. so I think that should be OK. I will salvage the existing indicator unit for potential future use ;-)

Hi, as my van is still under warranty, I have now had a replacement Fiat mirror fitted by a Fiat approved garage. Turns out it did not contain a radio antenna. However, I have noticed that the new LH mirror is angled closer to the body than the previous LH mirror and the original RH mirror. This means that a chunk of the lower 'blind spot' mirrror is obscured by the door and the electric adjustment is pretty much in the extreme of its left hand movemenrt to get the required viewing angle. The mirror is presumably positioned by some sort of spring-loaded mechanism in the housing. Can the angle of this mechinism be adjusted? I also noticed on one of the campervan forums that someone else had this issue with the anlge of a LH mirror and it was suggested that they had been provided with a European LH mirror designed for a left hand drive vehicle which is set at a different angle. Does this sound feasible? Being a bit of a nerd I have measured the angles between the mirrrors and the door. Driver side 68 degrees, passenger side 55 degrees. Any advice greatfully received. Thanks.

 

[HughJampton]

...well, given the roof aerial, and looking at the wiring, the non-existence of an aerial isn't entirely a surprise.

Yes, the mirrors for LHD/RHD are different, and the angle is different to correct for the angle of sight from the driver's seat.

To confirm that, here's an example of a LHD (only) mirror.

Fits Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay LHD Left Long Arm Mirror Temp Sender 06-

Electric Left Long Arm Mirror Fits: Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer And Citroen Relay 2006-Onwards. Left Hand Drive Only. With Temperature Sender.

coastalmotorhomes.co.uk

You might want to check which part number has been fitted. If you can confirm whether it's a short, medium or long arm mirror (we know it's passenger side, electrically heated/adjusted, but no other function) it should be possible to find the appropriate RHD part number.

Edited to add:

Thinking it through, however, I suspect the effect on the required angle of fitting the wrong one would be the other way round (I am still trying to get my head round that, though )

 

[Philsmith57]

...well, given the roof aerial, and looking at the wiring, the non-existence of an aerial isn't entirely a surprise.

Yes, the mirrors for LHD/RHD are different, and the angle is different to correct for the angle of sight from the driver's seat.

To confirm that, here's an example of a LHD (only) mirror.

Fits Fiat Ducato Peugeot Boxer Citroen Relay LHD Left Long Arm Mirror Temp Sender 06-

Electric Left Long Arm Mirror Fits: Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer And Citroen Relay 2006-Onwards. Left Hand Drive Only. With Temperature Sender.

coastalmotorhomes.co.uk

You might want to check which part number has been fitted. If you can confirm whether it's a short, medium or long arm mirror (we know it's passenger side, electrically heated/adjusted, but no other function) it should be possible to find the appropriate RHD part number.

Edited to add:

Thinking it through, however, I suspect the effect on the required angle of fitting the wrong one would be the other way round (I am still trying to get my head round that, though )

Thanks for reply. So is the set angle adjustable?

 

[HughJampton]

Not that I'm aware of.

 

[Crossingkeeper]

If a LHD mirror has been fitted in error then a correct viewing angle ought to be achievable by sitting in the passenger seat and adjusting the blindspot mirror......

 

[Philsmith57]

If a LHD mirror has been fitted in error then a correct viewing angle ought to be achievable by sitting in the passenger seat and adjusting the blindspot mirror......

OK, thanks.

 

[Philsmith57]

Not that I'm aware of.

Just so I am clear, from what you are saying, the angle between the LH mirror housing and the LH door on my van should be different from the angle between the RH mirror housing and the RH door on my van?

 

[jackwhoo]

The door mirrors for left hand drive vehicles and right hand drive vehicle are different and so have different part numbers. Contact whoever approved the repair under warranty point out the problem and ask them to check the part number of the replacement that was fitted to your vehicle.

The difference in the mirror assemblies between left hand drive and right hand drive is not adjustable.

 

[Philsmith57]

The door mirrors for left hand drive vehicles and right hand drive vehicle are different and so have different part numbers. Contact whoever approved the repair under warranty point out the problem and ask them to check the part number of the replacement that was fitted to your vehicle.

The difference in the mirror assemblies between left hand drive and right hand drive is not adjustable.

Thanks for reply. The fitting garage has been helpful so far. I am just waiting to hear back form them on the part numbers for the original mirror and the new one. As I said in earlier post, I noticed that there is a difference in the angle between the passenger side mirror housing and door and the driver side mirror and door. The passenger side mirrror is turned in towards the van more than the driver side mirror. This means that when you view the two mirrors from in front of the van, the difference in angles makes the passenger side mirror look closer to the body of the van than the drivers side mirror. Is it normal for the two mirror housings to be set at different angles to the doors or should they be identical?

 

[jackwhoo]

Thanks for reply. The fitting garage has been helpful so far. I am just waiting to hear back form them on the part numbers for the original mirror and the new one. As I said in earlier post, I noticed that there is a difference in the angle between the passenger side mirror housing and door and the driver side mirror and door. The passenger side mirrror is turned in towards the van more than the driver side mirror. This means that when you view the two mirrors from in front of the van, the difference in angles makes the passenger side mirror look closer to the body of the van than the drivers side mirror. Is it normal for the two mirror housings to be set at different angles to the doors or should they be identical?

I haven't measured the angles myself......but I would say no the angles of the left hand and right hand mirrors would not likely be the same....unless your steering wheel is in the centre of the vehicle like a tractor.

The mirrors are designed to reflect the rear view to the drivers eyes . Right hand drive vehicle =eyes above right hand seat.
Left hand drive =eyes above left hand seat.

Have you used the mirror adjuster buttons to adjust your new mirror glasses , upper ? And lower(blindspot)?

To adjust the blind spot mirror the arrow on the adjuster knob has to be turned to point at the 7 o'clock position

 

[HughJampton]

It's not uncommon for the two door mirrors on a vehicle to be at different angles (to cope with the differing angles of vision from the driver's seat).

On my XC40, for instance, the mirror housings are very noticeably at different angles).

I've just checked my Ducato (the nature of the vehicle means any difference is nowhere near as noticeable as the Volvo) and the arms and housings most certainly are at a different angle. The arm for the driver's mirror is angled forward somewhat more than that for the passenger's.

The distance of the respective mirrors from the body may thus be somewhat different as well (though not hugely noticeable). It's unlikely, but since the mirrors come in different arm sizes, you haven't got a replacement with an arm shorter than the original?

 

[Philsmith57]

It's not uncommon for the two door mirrors on a vehicle to be at different angles (to cope with the differing angles of vision from the driver's seat).

On my XC40, for instance, the mirror housings are very noticeably at different angles).

I've just checked my Ducato (the nature of the vehicle means any difference is nowhere near as noticeable as the Volvo) and the arms and housings most certainly are at a different angle. The arm for the driver's mirror is angled forward somewhat more than that for the passenger's.

The distance of the respective mirrors from the body may thus be somewhat different as well (though not hugely noticeable). It's unlikely, but since the mirrors come in different arm sizes, you haven't got a replacement with an arm shorter than the original?

Thanks for reply. So, on your Ducato, is the blindspot mirror on the passenger side, partly obscured by the door when looking from the driver's seat?

 

[jackwhoo]

If the blind spot mirror wasn't partly obscured on the original mirror then it should not be partly covered on the replacement