Technical Ducato 2020 engine turns but does not start.

[fedupcamper]

Hi!
I'm hoping the guru's and awesome people of this forum will be able to help me find clarity in the most recent issue I have with our Ducato motorhome.

I've had a lot of (expensive) issues with this car already and as my name suggests, starting to get fed up of it.
We're travelling in Greece at the moment.
Tuesday evening, around 20:00, I fueled the MoHo.
The worker who helped me was very friendly and even washed the front window and the front of the car with a pressure washer (might be of significance).
We drove away and about 4-5km later, I noticed the engine vibrating quite drastically at low revs (idle or low speed).
A minute or so later, when turning right at a light, the engine just stalled!

The engine turns, there's no problem with the battery (4th battery so far, mind you...).
I hear the fuel pump running for about 20s as normal when I put ignition on.
No immobilizer warnings when key is in ignition.
Checked the fuel inertia reset button, it's ok.
Service was done in January, diesel filter and air filter should be ok.
Timing belt was changed at the same time so camshaft etc. should be ok as well.
I initially thought maybe he accidentally put petrol in the tank instead of diesel, so I hosed some out and it smells, looks, acts, and feels like diesel. (does not evaporate quickly, is very oily due to lubricants, and has that lovely greenish hue that just screams "drink"). There was not much fuel left in the tank, about 5l, and I filled it with about 25l.
I checked the air filter, looks new.
I checked the diesel filter, well tried to anyway, but what leaked out seemed to be pure diesel (same as above).

Could water vapour have passed through the air intake filter and into the engine causing it to stall? (and if yes, then why would it happen 5-6km later and not right away?)
Can sludge from the bottom of the tank have been sucked in and clogged the diesel filter? Both sides were "wet".
I'm trying to get my hands on a mechanic but it's vacation time here as well and they very limited resources.
Also trying to get my hands on an OBD2 scanner to read the codes, but have not been able to find any yet.

Please help?

 

[ZaphodB]

Could water vapour have passed through the air intake filter and into the engine causing it to stall? (and if yes, then why would it happen 5-6km later and not right away?)
Can sludge from the bottom of the tank have been sucked in and clogged the diesel filter? Both sides were "wet".
I'm trying to get my hands on a mechanic but it's vacation time here as well and they very limited resources.
Also trying to get my hands on an OBD2 scanner to read the codes, but have not been able to find any yet.

Please help?

Was it a quality (big) branded fuel station?

If water 'vapour' had passed through the air intake you'd have a completely different set of symptoms...

If you have spanners, my humble suggestion would be to crack open (loosen slightly) the injector fuel connectors each in turn, crank and see if fuel spills out (at each injector)
If it does tighten back up as it's cranking.

This will prove you don't have air in the fuel system, and that there's fuel pressure.

 

[fedupcamper]

Was it a quality (big) branded fuel station?

If water 'vapour' had passed through the air intake you'd have a completely different set of symptoms...

If you have spanners, my humble suggestion would be to crack open (loosen slightly) the injector connectors each in turn, crank and see if fuel spills out (at each injector)
If it does tighten back up as it's cranking.

This will prove you don't have air in the fuel system, and that there's fuel pressure.

Yes, Cyclon on a main street, truckers were fueling at the same time.
Thank you, I'll try that!
Is there something else that it could be?

 

[Communicator]

@fedupcamper Do take care. The fuel pressures used in modern diesel engines are extremely high. Any spray is capable of penetrating your skin and causing blood poisoning, which could necessitate limb amputation.

Your story is similar to one of my own experiences from many years ago. I topped up with diesel and about a mile further on, the engine failed. Subsequent investigation revealed that in the two gallons of diesel purchased over 50% must have been water. It took that far to work through the system. Perhaps worth checking for water in the fuel system. Yes trucks may have been filling up at the same place but they frequently have dedicated pumps with larger hoses. Filling stations have several tanks.

 

[fedupcamper]

Do take care. The fuel pressures used in modern diesel engines are extremely high. Any spray is capable of penetrating your skin and causing blood poisoning, which could necessitate limb amputation.

Dang! I'll think twice before doing that!

Your story is similar to one of my own experiences from many years ago. I topped up with diesel and about a mile further on, the engine failed. Subsequent investigation revealed that in the two gallons of diesel purchased over 50% must have been water. It took that far to work through the system. Perhaps worth checking for water in the fuel system. Yes trucks may have been filling up at the same place but they frequently have dedicated pumps with larger hoses. Filling stations have several tanks.

Follow up questions;
How do I find out if there is water in the fuel system?
Would siphoning the diesel out and replacing it with "new" fix the issue?
It's a fairly new engine (2020-06), so I'm assuming that it has an automatic primer and that emptying the tank and refilling would not cause any problems...
Can I check the diesel for water myself or is it only a lab that can do that?

 

[ZaphodB]

Dang! I'll think twice before doing that!

I still think you should check it's got fuel at each injector first (as above)
Just releasing each union nut a very small amount (1/4 a turn ) will allow you to see if there is fuel (and pressure) there.

Follow up questions;
How do I find out if there is water in the fuel system?
Would siphoning the diesel out and replacing it with "new" fix the issue?
It's a fairly new engine (2020-06), so I'm assuming that it has an automatic primer and that emptying the tank and refilling would not cause any problems...
Can I check the diesel for water myself or is it only a lab that can do that?

Water will separate and sink below the fuel.**
If an appreciable amount of water has entered the system beyond the tank, this would need bleeding out but I'd imagine it would be in the filter too and there might be a water trap and drain there.
Does the vehicle have a water iin diesel warning light ?

** If you have real concerns that you've ingested water , you'd need to drain the tank and allow time for the fuel sample to settle out and the evidence will be... evident.

 

[fedupcamper]

I still think you should check it's got fuel at each injector first (as above)
Just releasing each union nut a very small amount (1/4 a turn ) will allow you to see if there is fuel (and pressure) there.

Understood, I'll try doing that today (if I can find some spanners... we're travelling and I don't have everything with me).

Water will separate and sink below the fuel.**
If an appreciable amount of water has entered the system beyond the tank, this would need bleeding out but I'd imagine it would be in the filter too and there might be a water trap and drain there.
Does the vehicle have a water iin diesel warning light ?

** If you have real concerns that you've ingested water , you'd need to drain the tank and allow time for the fuel sample to setlle out and the evidence will be... evident.

Perhaps it's one of the error codes, but nothing that shows up on the dashboard. I'm trying to get my hands on an OBD2 scanner.
I took out the diesel filter and I'm not sure I saw a drain. Since it's been standing for a couple of days now, is it possible that they have already separated in the tank if there is water in the diesel?

 

[ZaphodB]

Does the vehicle have a water iin diesel warning light ?

I've checked in a couple of different generation Ducato owners manuals and water in diesel would come up on the dash like so:

or:

So unless you've got that onscreen I doubt it's got an appreciable amount of water in the system

 

[varesecrazy]

I've checked in a couple of different generation Ducato owners manuals and water in diesel would come up on the dash like so:

View attachment 471140

or:

View attachment 471141

So unless you've got that onscreen I doubt it's got an appreciable amount of water in the system

Unless the sensor has been disabled..

So, it cranks over.. But has ZERO attempt at firing..?

Just as likely a sensor is stopping fuel pressure being reached..
(With low pressure the ECU won't enable injection)

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