Technical “Downgrading” to Pop steel wheels possible?

[Samuel D]

I’m interested in the new Fiat 500 Hybrid but the trim levels aren’t perfect for me.

What I want:

1. manual twist-dial HVAC controls
2. air conditioning
3. pollen filter
4. 65 aspect-ratio tyres (were 14-inch alloys ever available? They aren’t now)
5. preferably steel wheels
6. a way to show navigation on the display and play music from an iPhone. Do I need CarPlay for this? Pop trim doesn’t have that but has a 5-inch screen. What’s the screen for if not navigation from a smartphone?
7. ideally cruise control.

In France where I live, the base Pop trim has air conditioning. Great. And cruise control is an option. But does it have a pollen filter and can I navigate from my phone?

Lounge spec adds CarPlay and cruise control. Great. But also things I don’t care about: body-coloured mirrors, height-adjustable driver seat (not really, it just tilts), and a 7-inch display (I’ve never wished for my Garmin’s 3.5-inch display to be bigger).

But Lounge also adds 15-inch alloys with 55-height tyres: less comfortable, noisier, greater risk of pothole damage, harder on suspension components, slightly higher fuel consumption, more expensive to replace. Hmm.

So what about getting a Lounge car and having the dealer swap on 14-inch steel wheels from a Pop? Since most buyers prefer alloys and low-profile tyres, the dealer might be happy to do that. But is it officially okay from a technical perspective? The suspension isn’t tuned for the wheels the car comes with?

Thanks!

 

[chris3234]

All air con cars Have a pollen filter
You best bet would be to get the lounge and buy yourself a set of steels wheels and sell the alloy's to cover the cost

 

[Samuel D]

That might work … if the suspension is identical between the various models. The dampers might be tuned for the weight of the factory wheels. Boy racers wouldn’t care about little details like that but I do.

What is “Uconnect”?

The Pop model with the 5-inch screen has Uconnect even though it doesn’t have CarPlay.

 

[chris3234]

U connect is just the same for the radio/Bluetooth system
It also controls some of the cars functions

And the 500 suspension only varies by engine not trim or wheels type
I doubt very few cars are tuned down to what wheels they have fitted and certainly not anything fiat

 

[Samuel D]

Thank you.

I have two more questions for anyone who might know:

1. Are steel wheels a straight swap for alloys, no need to change something in the hubs?
2. Can the 5-inch screen in Pop models with Uconnect be used for navigation in any way, either with built-in maps or with an iPhone?

It’s hard to find this sort of detail on the Fiat website (and all car websites).

 

[PuntoHowTo]

smaller 14 or 15 inch tyres are not always cheaper. The 17 inch wheels on my Punto evo are very cheap because they are a common size 205/45/17. i've bought tyres for as little as £45. The tyres on my golf are 225/40/18 which is a very common VW/audi size again making them very cheap, I once got two tyres fitted for £150.(bridgestones)

My wife's mini Countryman has odd sized run flats (225/50/180) these are abpit £180 per tyre for the exact same model + runflat as my golf.

Personally I'd get the spec you want, so if you want Carplay and I highly recommend it, then its not worth down grading parts as the value will be disproportionately altered when you come to sell the car. I don't know what its like in france but in the UK the insurance company's might see it as a modification away from standard spec and as a result, up your premiums or not want to pay out if you had an accident.

 

[Samuel D]

Point taken about the possible insurance effects.

It’s mainly the ride quality and road noise in the cabin that I’m concerned about, not the cost of tyre replacement. Also storage space for summer wheels when I use winter wheels (tyres).

The car would be bought outright and kept for at least 10 years, maybe 15 if I’m lucky, so resale value isn’t very important to me. Although I did that with the car I currently have (2009 Citroën C1) and, incredibly, it’s still worth about €2500 here in France.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Point taken about the possible insurance effects.

It’s mainly the ride quality and road noise in the cabin that I’m concerned about, not the cost of tyre replacement. Also storage space for summer wheels when I use winter wheels (tyres).

The car would be bought outright and kept for at least 10 years, maybe 15 if I’m lucky, so resale value isn’t very important to me. Although I did that with the car I currently have (2009 Citroën C1) and, incredibly, it’s still worth about €2500 here in France.

My golf with its 18inch low profile tyres is very quiet on the road, more often than not it’s the tread of the tyre that increases or decreases road noise. I’ve driven extensively in France and around Paris, and a side from the terrible pot holes in some of the sliproads, which the 18inch wheels and still have no problems absorbing (it just makes you cringe) I don’t find the French roads bad at all.

The difference between a 500 abarth with 18 inch 35 side wall tires and super hard sports suspension, is obviously going to have a much harsher ride than a pop with big tyre walls and long soft suspension.

However the difference between a 205/45/16 and a 185/55/15 is about 11mm on a 10cm tyre wall it’s such a small amount you’ll not really notice it in every day use. The rolling circumference of the tyre is basically the same. The bigger wider tyre would give a better grip compared to a narrower tyre.

Essentially you’d be splitting hairs to change to steel wheels. You could probably ask the dealer to change them as a no cost option or you could change them yourself, and sell the alloys, I dunno what you’d sell them for in Paris.

I’d definitely recommend carplay, it is much better in that the map updates are all free, the software updates are regular and the whole thing can be voice controlled, you can also use a choice of mapping software like Apple/google or waze

 

[Samuel D]

A Golf might be quiet with 18-inch wheels but an A-segment car needs all the help it can get. French roads are generally pretty good as you say, but I’ll take this car all over Europe over the next decade. The Alps, Italian villages, Corsica, Germany, Ireland, Romania, Finland, everywhere. Plenty of rough roads including ones with no tarmac.

Looks like CarPlay would be very useful.

I guess it’s time for a test drive of a Lounge-spec 500 Hyrbid, and then I can decide whether a downgrade to 14-inch wheels is necessary.

 

[jrkitching]

So what about getting a Lounge car and having the dealer swap on 14-inch steel wheels from a Pop?

I did something similar when I bought my Lounge. Purchased an as-new set of 14" wheels, ecotyres and OEM trims for £150 (the tyres alone would have easily cost that). Bought them from a pop owner doing the opposite. I kept the original alloys & centre caps (still have them, unused) in case I wanted to sell the car - you never know.

The car definitely rides better on 14" steel wheels, plus the pothole risk is greatly mitigated.

Two additional benefits; you'll see a slight improvement in economy from the reduced rolling resistance of the narrower ecotyres, and you'll get less suspension wear, since the rolling inertia of the wheel/tyre combination is less.

My Panda (which has steels & 155 r13 tyres) has now run almost 100k miles on the (essentially identical) original suspension and dampers.

On an A segment car like the 1.2 500/Panda, wide low profile alloys are fitted for form, not function.

 

[chris3234]

I did something similar when I bought mine. Purchased an as-new set of 14" wheels, ecotyres and OEM trims for £150 (the tyres alone would have easily cost that). I kept the original alloys & centre caps (still have them, unused) in case I wanted to sell the car - you never know.

The car definitely rides better on 14" steel wheels, plus the pothole risk is greatly mitigated.

I'd like the 16" alloy's on my Tipo rather the 17" diamond cut ones fitted to the lounge
Partly as they are painted rather then diamond cut and also the tyres size of the 16" is 2/3 of the price of the 17" tyres

But being a far less common car the part's are quite costly second hand

 

[jrkitching]

I'd like the 16" alloy's on my Tipo rather the 17" diamond cut ones fitted to the lounge.

Partly as they are painted rather then diamond cut and also the tyres size of the 16" is 2/3 of the price of the 17" tyres

But being a far less common car the part's are quite costly second hand

Unless you keep the car in a desert, diamond cut alloys are the very devil to keep pristine. Any salt on the roads will soon lead to corrosion, and if you kerb one, refinishing them will be expensive, if it is even possible.

They would be a deal breaker for me if I were contemplating a new car purchase.

 

[chris3234]

Unless you keep the car in a desert, diamond cut alloys are the very devil to keep pristine. Any salt on the roads will soon lead to corrosion, and if you kerb one, refinishing them will be expensive, if it is even possible.

They would be a deal breaker for me if I were contemplating a new car purchase.

Probably end up getting them stripped and powder coated when they get bad laquer is already peeling around the bolts holes from wear with sockets ect

 

[jrkitching]

Probably end up getting them stripped and powder coated when they get bad laquer is already peeling around the bolts holes from wear with sockets ect

I remember helping a friend who was shopping for a secondhand Merc. At the main dealers, just about every car with OEM diamond cut wheels over 3yrs old had had the rims removed and powder coated before being put on the showroom floor.

 

[chris3234]

I remember helping a friend who was shopping for a secondhand Merc. At the main dealers, just about every car with OEM diamond cut wheels over 3yrs old had had the rims removed and powder coated before being put on the showroom floor.

Just the sort of finish wheels should be in the uk

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Wait to see when the car comes out what wheels can be fitted, The reason I say this is because when I had my Mk2b punto, you could fit 14" steel wheels but you could not fit 14" alloys as they would foul the brake calipers. The hybrid lounge models might have bigger brakes (they might not but who knows at the moment) maybe because of the car carrying more weight, and so you might only be able to fit bigger 15 inch wheels.

Definitely if you have your heart set on steel wheels then talk to the dealership, I don't doubt this is something they will do if it can be done, to make a sale.

 

[Samuel D]

I did something similar when I bought my Lounge. Purchased an as-new set of 14" wheels, ecotyres and OEM trims for £150 (the tyres alone would have easily cost that). Bought them from a pop owner doing the opposite.

That sounds like a cheap way to go about it. Can you use the existing lug nuts?

On an A segment car like the 1.2 500/Panda, wide low profile alloys are fitted for form, not function.

I think that applies to many other cars too. There’s a good article here about this trend:

https://www.vehicledynamicsinternational.com/features/john-miles-style-and-exclusivity.html

Check out the last paragraph in particular.

 

[jrkitching]

Can you use the existing lug nuts?

Certainly on the current model; the wheel bolts are identical, regardless of wheel fitment.

There’s a good article here about this trend

That's an old, old article, but the points made in it are just as true today.

 

[AGH1965]

I’m interested in the new Fiat 500 Hybrid but the trim levels aren’t perfect for me.
...
The suspension isn’t tuned for the wheels the car comes with?

My advice to you is to go for a test drive first instead of worrying about trim levels.

Coming from a C1 you may not like the 500's suspension at all. For example, with a 500 you can't take speed bumps the way you are probably used to.

 

[Gina500]

Go for the 7" radio, it has carplay and works better than any manufacturer supplied unit I had before. Great DAB+ reception, easy to navigate the menus and the internal Tomtom works fine. And if you don't care for all the features, it has carplay...

On the tyres, my experience is that noise levels are massively influenced by profile, more than any other factor. Same for comfort - runflats are simply harder so avoid them if you are sensitive on that front. Get a spare wheel though when you are going bad roads and far away from home

14 or 15" - I just would not bother, it wil not make much of a difference. The remaining delta can probably be equalized with a variation in tyre pressure.
If the hybrid is similar to the existing models, which it probably is, 14-16" options are possible without modifications. Same lug nuts, straight swap. Can be done anytime later. And steel wheels are cheap, esp. used sets cost nearly nothing. They do rust though and are much harder to keep nice looking than alloys.