General Doc's Barchetta vs 03 MX-5 review
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General Doc's Barchetta vs 03 MX-5 review
Actually very interested to hear your opinions Doc. I have my theories on the outcome & I suspect I know which way you're going to go. At the end of the day, it all depends on what you want from a small convertible sportscar.
As for comparing a B with a Merc/Boxster etc. Get real. It's not in the same ballpark, as LRB (I think) has pointed out. You wouldn't compare a Daewoo Matiz with a 5 Series Boomer for example, so how can you compare a B with something costing £20k+ more than a B?
Granted, as much as we all love our B's (or those of us that have escaped the Fiat main dealer network anyway!), I'm sure they aren't our "all time dream cars". Certainly I know that if I had a couple of million in the bank, it would be a Ferrari 250 California GT Spider in the barn instead of the B. But dreams are dreams & my Barchetta will do me for now. At least it's the right colour - RED!!!
OP
OP
Hi, sorry for the delay but its been full on last week.
OK so what did I find out after spending a week with a 1.8i 03 sports MX-5 and my 99 1.8 VVT Barchetta.
Lets start with looks:
The front has to be a win for the MX-5. The lights, bumper and bonnet have a more fresh look the the Barchetta with its more modern light clusters. Now before anyone kicks off I know this is because the MX-5 had a big face lift a few years ago so its a bit unfair as the Barchetta front was designed well over 13 years ago.
The side view has to be a Barchetta win hands down thanks to the lovely front wing line that flows down the door and over the rear wing. Its Italian all the way.
The boot is a mixed bag for me, I love the Barchetta light design but it could now do with a set of white back lights to replace the out of date red set that we all have, that said it still wins hands down to the MX-5 in the design element. The rear bumper on the MX-5 is better then my 99 design but then I am a big fan of the new rear Barchetta bumper. You have to make your own mind up as to the 3rd brake light on the updated Barchetta but for me, I just dont like it. The boot on the Barchetta is so much bigger then the MX-5 thanks to it being FWD
The hood design is a tie as each has things the other does not. The MX-5 glass back window is a big plus over the B design but the Barchetta had the hood compartment. The MX-5 hood can be put up and down faster the the Barchetta because of its design but you can still see the hood when its down in the MX-5.
Inside the cars its all Barchetta! The MX-5 is better built but its just a black well functioning dash with no style at all. The door does feel real close when you are in the seat and the cockpit feels smaller then the Barchetta. The Black leather seats in the MX-5 hold you in place while I find the Leather Barchetta's does not when you find yourself on the fast twisty stuff.
Engine Bay layout is the MX-5 kills the barchetta design hands down. Being the Barchetta is a transverse engine space is an a big issue. The MX-5 has so much space to work with and the layout is great. Mods for the MX-5 engine are easy to find and the MX-5 lump is a fantastic unit.
After driving the two cars I found myself shocked at the results, I have to say that the two cars drive about the same in handling, braking and overall feel. Now I dont know how much extra stuff the MX-5 1.8i Sports has over stock model but my Barchetta has had new ARB,shocks and springs as well as 17" wheels and brake upgrades. I always had the MX-5 down as being so much better to drive then the Barchetta but with a few mods the B can really punch above its weight. The MX-5 in the wet was so much more fun over the Barcheta thanks to the RWD but this could also put a few people off, like it did my mother last year when she lost it on a wet corner.
The MX-5 is so much more expensive then the Barchetta you can spend some of the money you saved adding a few handling mods to your Barchetta thus level the playing field between the two cars. You can do a load more with the MX-5 engine then the Barchetta unit but I put this down to the MX-5 being a mainstream car over the low number unit Barchetta.
Engine's. The Barchetta turned out to be a little faster but not that much overall. The MX-5 I had was fitted with a six speed box that I did love over the sometimes tight Barchetta box.
Build quality was all MX-5 but I think we all knew that. The only thing that let the MX-5 down was the boot lid quality making it feel a bit tin plate ish when you shut it. A £100 spent on Dynamat would make both cars sound and feel better at speed.
If all you want is an easy to live with two seater sports car to drive everyday and thats about it, then get an MX-5. If you like playing around a bit and like to take the path less traveled as well as want to get to know your car by getting your hands dirty now and again, then a Barchetta is the one for you.
The MX-5 is a modern day washing machine that always works and does exacly what it was designed to do. The Barchetta on the other hand will expect so much more love and attention from you but will reward you with charm and something special. If you put the time and work in then you will find yourself just going for a drive in your Barchetta. Now when was the last time you did that in your car.
I was supprised just how close the two cars ranked overall
For me The Barchetta gives me back so much more then the MX-5 ever could. That said when I spend two hours drilling out yet another broken bolt, it makes you think about it thats for sure.
OK so what did I find out after spending a week with a 1.8i 03 sports MX-5 and my 99 1.8 VVT Barchetta.
Lets start with looks:
The front has to be a win for the MX-5. The lights, bumper and bonnet have a more fresh look the the Barchetta with its more modern light clusters. Now before anyone kicks off I know this is because the MX-5 had a big face lift a few years ago so its a bit unfair as the Barchetta front was designed well over 13 years ago.
The side view has to be a Barchetta win hands down thanks to the lovely front wing line that flows down the door and over the rear wing. Its Italian all the way.
The boot is a mixed bag for me, I love the Barchetta light design but it could now do with a set of white back lights to replace the out of date red set that we all have, that said it still wins hands down to the MX-5 in the design element. The rear bumper on the MX-5 is better then my 99 design but then I am a big fan of the new rear Barchetta bumper. You have to make your own mind up as to the 3rd brake light on the updated Barchetta but for me, I just dont like it. The boot on the Barchetta is so much bigger then the MX-5 thanks to it being FWD
The hood design is a tie as each has things the other does not. The MX-5 glass back window is a big plus over the B design but the Barchetta had the hood compartment. The MX-5 hood can be put up and down faster the the Barchetta because of its design but you can still see the hood when its down in the MX-5.
Inside the cars its all Barchetta! The MX-5 is better built but its just a black well functioning dash with no style at all. The door does feel real close when you are in the seat and the cockpit feels smaller then the Barchetta. The Black leather seats in the MX-5 hold you in place while I find the Leather Barchetta's does not when you find yourself on the fast twisty stuff.
Engine Bay layout is the MX-5 kills the barchetta design hands down. Being the Barchetta is a transverse engine space is an a big issue. The MX-5 has so much space to work with and the layout is great. Mods for the MX-5 engine are easy to find and the MX-5 lump is a fantastic unit.
After driving the two cars I found myself shocked at the results, I have to say that the two cars drive about the same in handling, braking and overall feel. Now I dont know how much extra stuff the MX-5 1.8i Sports has over stock model but my Barchetta has had new ARB,shocks and springs as well as 17" wheels and brake upgrades. I always had the MX-5 down as being so much better to drive then the Barchetta but with a few mods the B can really punch above its weight. The MX-5 in the wet was so much more fun over the Barcheta thanks to the RWD but this could also put a few people off, like it did my mother last year when she lost it on a wet corner.
The MX-5 is so much more expensive then the Barchetta you can spend some of the money you saved adding a few handling mods to your Barchetta thus level the playing field between the two cars. You can do a load more with the MX-5 engine then the Barchetta unit but I put this down to the MX-5 being a mainstream car over the low number unit Barchetta.
Engine's. The Barchetta turned out to be a little faster but not that much overall. The MX-5 I had was fitted with a six speed box that I did love over the sometimes tight Barchetta box.
Build quality was all MX-5 but I think we all knew that. The only thing that let the MX-5 down was the boot lid quality making it feel a bit tin plate ish when you shut it. A £100 spent on Dynamat would make both cars sound and feel better at speed.
If all you want is an easy to live with two seater sports car to drive everyday and thats about it, then get an MX-5. If you like playing around a bit and like to take the path less traveled as well as want to get to know your car by getting your hands dirty now and again, then a Barchetta is the one for you.
The MX-5 is a modern day washing machine that always works and does exacly what it was designed to do. The Barchetta on the other hand will expect so much more love and attention from you but will reward you with charm and something special. If you put the time and work in then you will find yourself just going for a drive in your Barchetta. Now when was the last time you did that in your car.
I was supprised just how close the two cars ranked overall
For me The Barchetta gives me back so much more then the MX-5 ever could. That said when I spend two hours drilling out yet another broken bolt, it makes you think about it thats for sure.
Attachments
I can be a little more succinct Doc: MX-5 :yuck: Barchetta :yum:
OP
OP
All Fiat needed to do was work on the build quality, make the car RWD as well as RHD for the UK and Jap market. If it has done these things it could of asked for a bit more £££ for the car and the B would have done so much more unit sales. The design was spot on but the penny pinching from Fiat stopped this car from being an MX-5 killer.
The B was almost stopped in the design department because the panel cost for each shell was 3 times that of the Fiat Punto at the time. The head of Fiat gave the go ahead himself because of this issue. When you work on the B and see the engine bulk head and petrol tank area, you can see why the panel cost was so high heheh, try running a cable !?!
The B was almost stopped in the design department because the panel cost for each shell was 3 times that of the Fiat Punto at the time. The head of Fiat gave the go ahead himself because of this issue. When you work on the B and see the engine bulk head and petrol tank area, you can see why the panel cost was so high heheh, try running a cable !?!
Well, my mate owns an 2004 1.8 MX-5 sport with 6-speed gearbox and limited slip diff and I have had a go in that one many times. My verdict is:
Handling:
MX-5 - Great fun under good conditions and if you are a bit ok with RWD and over steer but the engine needs to be pushed hard due to the lack of low rev punch. Dangerous on the wet for mediocre drivers.
Barchetta - Safe, Safe, Safe, unless you over do it, which leads to over steer more often than under steer, which is then again easily controlled with the superb steering.
Build quality:
MX-5 - better materials used, mediocre fitting, crap design, more reliable mechanical parts
Barchetta - poor materials, good fitting, nice design, vulnerable mechanicals if used hard.
Practicality:
MX-5: none
Bachetta: none +1
Comfort:
MX-5 - two medium sized adults and a cat in the boot might fit. Brings in my mind that Mazda used to make tuxedos made to fit the customer. So the MX-5 just fits the Japanese.
Barchetta: For a roadster its great. Suspension is tight, then again it should be.
Ecomomy:
MX-5 - expensive normal maintenance, rare damages.
Barchetta - cheaper maintenance, expensive repairs when something goes wrong. Better MPG.
Performance:
All sprints have the MX-5 just behind the B. Then again my mate is 110kg!
Style:
MX-5 - &^!%&^@#%&^$%&^@#!*@#)
Barchetta - Italian. The End.
History:
I dont know, the B though is designed by a greek and hand made so +1
Overall I will agree that if you want a trouble free convertible thing that over steers and looks no different than the other 200 ones around you get the MX-5.
If though you want something with style 'n' soul go for the B but be prepared to get your hands dirty and your tech brain storming!
What I would pick? A Fiat Barchetta, obviously
What I would want? A fiat barchetta modified to 4WD using Lancia Delta Integrale 4WD and 2.0lt TURBO engine. Easy Project dont you think?
What I would really want (Dream car)? A 2007 BMW M3 coupe.
Handling:
MX-5 - Great fun under good conditions and if you are a bit ok with RWD and over steer but the engine needs to be pushed hard due to the lack of low rev punch. Dangerous on the wet for mediocre drivers.
Barchetta - Safe, Safe, Safe, unless you over do it, which leads to over steer more often than under steer, which is then again easily controlled with the superb steering.
Build quality:
MX-5 - better materials used, mediocre fitting, crap design, more reliable mechanical parts
Barchetta - poor materials, good fitting, nice design, vulnerable mechanicals if used hard.
Practicality:
MX-5: none
Bachetta: none +1
Comfort:
MX-5 - two medium sized adults and a cat in the boot might fit. Brings in my mind that Mazda used to make tuxedos made to fit the customer. So the MX-5 just fits the Japanese.
Barchetta: For a roadster its great. Suspension is tight, then again it should be.
Ecomomy:
MX-5 - expensive normal maintenance, rare damages.
Barchetta - cheaper maintenance, expensive repairs when something goes wrong. Better MPG.
Performance:
All sprints have the MX-5 just behind the B. Then again my mate is 110kg!
Style:
MX-5 - &^!%&^@#%&^$%&^@#!*@#)
Barchetta - Italian. The End.
History:
I dont know
, the B though is designed by a greek and hand made so +1Overall I will agree that if you want a trouble free convertible thing that over steers and looks no different than the other 200 ones around you get the MX-5.
If though you want something with style 'n' soul go for the B but be prepared to get your hands dirty and your tech brain storming!
What I would pick? A Fiat Barchetta, obviously
What I would want? A fiat barchetta modified to 4WD using Lancia Delta Integrale 4WD and 2.0lt TURBO engine. Easy Project dont you think?
What I would really want (Dream car)? A 2007 BMW M3 coupe.
:yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :nutter: :nutter: :nutter: :nono: :nono: :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead :stupid: :life:One of the first things I thought about when I got mine. Now that would make an awsome car!!! Is it possible? Does anyone know if it's actually been attempted??? Now if we all chipped in.......!
I don't think they would have even had to worry about RWD. Just moving the steering wheel would have made it infinitely more successful. Anyway, I rather like the fact that they didn't. It just means that we get to drive around in a cheap, reliable, fun, charismatic car that looks a bit different to everything else. Well, that is unless you live near DTR, in which case they're all over the bloody place!!!
Sticking my twopennyworth into this, I would say (for me at least) the reason the B beats the competition is the fact that it's not made using top quality materials & top spec sound deadening etc. Bear with me on this. I've been in the motor trade for more years than I care to remember & in my time have specialised in everything from British sportscars from the 50's & 60's (MGA, B, C, Midget, Triumph TR2-6, Spitfire, Austin Healey etc.), all the way through to being one of the first to sell the new MGF. Also driven MX-5's in various guises, Nissan 350Z, Porsche Ponster (sorry, Boxster!), Honda S2000 (Great engine, great fun, but f*****g scary on roundabouts in the wet!) as well as many others. The thing I loved about the old Brit stuff is that they felt like you were driving by the seat of your pants. You felt as though you were being surrounded by the car; coccooned inside. There was also the noise, you could hear everything going on around you, from the road noise to the engine, & then there was the dart like steering. Move the wheel a fraction & the car responded. The Barchetta is the closest I have felt to the feeling I got when I drove those old roadsters. The B feels more "back to basics" & as a result feels more like a car to enjoy driving.
The other modern stuff is pandering to people coming out of small saloon cars, so they are trying to make them feel as much like small saloon cars as possible. This means well insulated, Big, padded dashboards, big seats that mean you sit too high (I often felt as though I was sitting on top of my MGF company cars rather than in them - From what I can remember, the same was with the latest MX-5). This I think is the reason why I prefer the B to any of the other stuff. It's the pennypinching & lower quality materiels that makes it more endearing to me.
Does this make any sense? I'm not sure I've been very effective in getting my point across here. I'm suffering a serious bout of man flu at the moment & coughing, sneezing & sweating like a mad thing, & I'm sure I'm hallucinating at points too!
The door handles, penny pinching?? I think not.
The individual rear lights instead of one cluster, penny pinching?? I think not.
Galvanised body,penny pinching?? I think not.
Just three examples that sprang immediately to mind regarding the design cues of the B. I fail to see any "penny pinching" going on in the B in fact, if they wanted to "penny pinch" they would not have designed a bespoke body for the B , surely instead they would have produced an open topped Punto??
Quoting production meetings where they argued about costs hardly makes the B a "cheap" car does it?? All car manufacturers cut costs wherever possible and still attempt to produce something unique, something Fiat have always done very well in their history
The individual rear lights instead of one cluster, penny pinching?? I think not.
Galvanised body,penny pinching?? I think not.
Just three examples that sprang immediately to mind regarding the design cues of the B. I fail to see any "penny pinching" going on in the B in fact, if they wanted to "penny pinch" they would not have designed a bespoke body for the B , surely instead they would have produced an open topped Punto??
Quoting production meetings where they argued about costs hardly makes the B a "cheap" car does it?? All car manufacturers cut costs wherever possible and still attempt to produce something unique, something Fiat have always done very well in their history
OP
OP
Dash fuse box, bonnet handle, manifold heat cover, saggy seatbelts, every bolt, rad, window wiper motor, galvanised quality, plastic trim, speakers any many more things all made of chocolate.
Does it stop me from loving my Barchetta over any other car I have owned, nope !! But it would have saved me a truck full of $$$
Does it stop me from loving my Barchetta over any other car I have owned, nope !! But it would have saved me a truck full of $$$
Naah, you wanted to modify, otherwise you would have spent the €€€ on a car which ultimately wouldn't have been yours, just a.n. other.
Wow - first off Doc - excellent balanced review, thanks for taking the time and effort to share it with us!
IMHO if you take the best bits out of everyones posts I think you capture the spirit of the B, individual, it does not have mass market appeal, it gives a close to 'proper' sports car driving experience, it hugs the occupants and the driving position feels 'right' somehow, it gets a second glance by passers by (how many times have you seen people stop and look at an MGF or MX-5?), it is inexpensive to modify - in short it is an enthusiasts car for people who like to be individual and don't cow-tail to the accepted motoring 'norm's'.
I think that the bad points in the posting apply to most European cars - I think you would have to argue long and hard to convince an MGF owner that their pride and joy was created using quality material - and how many 10 y/o French cars do you see on the roads in good condition! The Jap's sorted out their build quality issues in the late 80' and early 90's but IMHO lacked the inspiration to build quality cars that looked good - I accept that has changed over the past few years with the likes of the RX-8 and the new Civic - like em or love 'em they make a design statement!
I recall reading that FIAT blew a large proportion of the development budget for the B on getting the design right (an issue with outsourcing!!) and the quality of the materials used to construct the B was compromised to limit production losses - regardless it's a fantastic looking car (still looks fresh), but we all know deep down in our hearts that our pride and joy's would have rusted to the size of a coke can had they not been galvanized!!
Anyhow, I have always thought that an individuals choice of car is a personal thing but for some reason we cannot just say that - it always has to be 'better' than it's peers!!!!
I have driven a number of MX-5's (indeed came very close to buying one fitted with a BBS turbo), and if my memory serves me correctly they were 'ok' - having lived with the B since May this year I can honestly say that it puts a smile on my face EVERY time I drive it (even on my current drive into the office), - I am not sure I would have felt the same way about an MX-5 5 months into ownership.....................
IMHO if you take the best bits out of everyones posts I think you capture the spirit of the B, individual, it does not have mass market appeal, it gives a close to 'proper' sports car driving experience, it hugs the occupants and the driving position feels 'right' somehow, it gets a second glance by passers by (how many times have you seen people stop and look at an MGF or MX-5?), it is inexpensive to modify - in short it is an enthusiasts car for people who like to be individual and don't cow-tail to the accepted motoring 'norm's'.
I think that the bad points in the posting apply to most European cars - I think you would have to argue long and hard to convince an MGF owner that their pride and joy was created using quality material - and how many 10 y/o French cars do you see on the roads in good condition! The Jap's sorted out their build quality issues in the late 80' and early 90's but IMHO lacked the inspiration to build quality cars that looked good - I accept that has changed over the past few years with the likes of the RX-8 and the new Civic - like em or love 'em they make a design statement!
I recall reading that FIAT blew a large proportion of the development budget for the B on getting the design right (an issue with outsourcing!!) and the quality of the materials used to construct the B was compromised to limit production losses - regardless it's a fantastic looking car (still looks fresh), but we all know deep down in our hearts that our pride and joy's would have rusted to the size of a coke can had they not been galvanized!!
Anyhow, I have always thought that an individuals choice of car is a personal thing but for some reason we cannot just say that - it always has to be 'better' than it's peers!!!!
I have driven a number of MX-5's (indeed came very close to buying one fitted with a BBS turbo), and if my memory serves me correctly they were 'ok' - having lived with the B since May this year I can honestly say that it puts a smile on my face EVERY time I drive it (even on my current drive into the office), - I am not sure I would have felt the same way about an MX-5 5 months into ownership.....................
OP
OP
True Zem, true
By the way,
MK1 punto WAS produced open topped
probably one of the ****** cars FIAT ever made though
Rustbucket
Established member
My 2p worth is to remember that the B is effectively a 15yr old design which has never had a major update. What has been done to it since? Bumpers/rear lights / chopped off Rhino horn on the boot lid? One thing the Japs do is proper market research + decent R&D ongoing development.
The MX5 has had three major rebuilds and probably more to come and it isn't made of zinc coated cardboard. Sorry But we are comparing chalk and the proverbial. I love my B but you can't compare the 2. Bit like comparing the original Alfa Spider with the new one..
The MX5 has had three major rebuilds and probably more to come and it isn't made of zinc coated cardboard. Sorry But we are comparing chalk and the proverbial. I love my B but you can't compare the 2. Bit like comparing the original Alfa Spider with the new one..
OP
OP
Yes I remember now, I forgot about that car.
Yes I remember now, I forgot about that car.
:yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:
Need I say more? :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:
larkim
Established member
Le Mans 72
New member
Well, I think this Punto looks better than any "CC" (206, micra, etc ...)
