Technical Do I need a new clutch or gearbox?

[beattiedh]

Hello all,

After an hour or so driving the gear changes become knotty and first and reverse the most challenging. Bite point is also very short. Once in gear car pulls well with no judder of slipping. Not sure if it is the clutch or gearbox that is the issue. thanks for any help.

 

[John202020]

Can you select gears easily with the engine off?
How many miles/age is the car?
First look at the clutch hydraulics this is a known weak area and can cause selection issues, then maybe the clutch.
Interestingly our 09 car with 96k on the clock has suddenly started to give issues selecting reverse but not had a chance to look at it, going to look at the gear stick assembly first

 

[varesecrazy]

I beleve its a twinair..

So DMF wear could be a possibility

The @1 hour makes me think its heat related..

Well worth trying the easy stuff 1st though

 

[beattiedh]

Can you select gears easily with the engine off?
How many miles/age is the car?
First look at the clutch hydraulics this is a known weak area and can cause selection issues, then maybe the clutch.
Interestingly our 09 car with 96k on the clock has suddenly started to give issues selecting reverse but not had a chance to look at it, going to look at the gear stick assembly first

Thanks John. It is easier to select gears when engine is not running but still notchy. It has done 96k as well. HOw can I ell if it is the hydraulics cauasing the issue?

 

[beattiedh]

I beleve its a twinair..

So DMF wear could be a possibility

The @1 hour makes me think its heat related..

Well worth trying the easy stuff 1st though

Definalty heat related. She did a 2 hour lesson and mock test yesterday and it has got worse. Probably lots of town driving for that long would have introduced a lot of heat. Happy to try the easy stuff first though, if I knew what to try.

 

[varesecrazy]

Check clutch fluid

Attempt to look at gearbox for leaks..wear..etc

 

[Ralf S.]

If the gears aren't making a whine and not jumping out then the gearbox sounds okay.

Bleed the clutch to see whether that helps for longer than just a while, and if not then it sounds like you'll need to operate. Don't buy a clutch kit until you've see the state of the dual mass flywheel... but once you're there, if it clunks or moves excessively (they're supposed to have some limited radial movement ) then order a kit with a flywheel, rather than just a clutch kit (incl. release bearing).

If the slave cylinder is inside the clutch bell-housing, then change that too.


Ralf S,

 

[varesecrazy]

Worth checking the gearchage cable.. just behind . battery too

 

[RalphM]

First job check gearbox oil level.

 

[varesecrazy]

Yes..check gearbox oil.. always worthwhile

But unlikely that changes too drastically with heat



Years ago (@40..)
our 1st pandas wouldnt select reverse when warm.. the gearchange mechanism was adjustable.. so you could compensate for wear


@werdna had his 500TA gearchange cable drop off at the g.box end

I dont know if it had been 'odd' just before..???

But new cables were fitted..and all good now

 

[werdna]

Yes..check gearbox oil.. always worthwhile

But unlikely that changes too drastically with heat



Years ago (@40..)
our 1st pandas wouldnt select reverse when warm.. the gearchange mechanism was adjustable.. so you could compensate for wear


@werdna had his 500TA gearchange cable drop off at the g.box end

I dont know if it had been 'odd' just before..???

But new cables were fitted..and all good now

Yes it had, but can't remember what !

 

[eeeno]

I would start with the most easiest and cheapest parts. It's very likely that it's got worn gear linkages/cables. However clutch slave/master can sometimes be an issue. Can they be bled, hydraulic fluid (DOT4) changed? On other Fiat it really improved it when I changed the brake liquid and bled the clutch slave cylinder too. Most likely the clutch is not disengaging properly so check clutch fork movement.

 

[beattiedh]

I would start with the most easiest and cheapest parts. It's very likely that it's got worn gear linkages/cables. However clutch slave/master can sometimes be an issue. Can they be bled, hydraulic fluid (DOT4) changed? On other Fiat it really improved it when I changed the brake liquid and bled the clutch slave cylinder too. Most likely the clutch is not disengaging properly so check clutch fork movement.

Should be ok to do. Had a quick look under the bonnet and couldn't see the master cylinder. All the online videos only show the location top left for the 1.2. I did a gearbox oil change when I got the car as it had a leaking driveshaft seal so replaced it. Any guidance would be great to understand how to bleed the system and replace the DOT4

 

[eeeno]

If you've never done these before, you should get one of those Haynes manuals for Fiat Panda and check the guides section from these forums. Clutch slave cylinder is on the top of the gearbox and has a bleed nipple on top (at least on punto). Some have used spray bottle pump succesfully to bleed the clutch but of course another person should keep the clutch pedal down when nipple's open.

 

[beattiedh]

If you've never done these before, you should get one of those Haynes manuals for Fiat Panda and check the guides section from these forums. Clutch slave cylinder is on the top of the gearbox and has a bleed nipple on top (at least on punto). Some have used spray bottle pump succesfully to bleed the clutch but of course another person should keep the clutch pedal down when nipple's open.

I now realise the Twinair shares the DOT4 reservoir with the brake system and levels are good.

Can I assume you would take the battery and tray out then loosen the bleed nipple and have someone push the pedal to release any trapped air?

 

[Ralf S.]

I now realise the Twinair shares the DOT4 reservoir with the brake system and levels are good.

Can I assume you would take the battery and tray out then loosen the bleed nipple and have someone push the pedal to release any trapped air?

You might be able to do it with the battery tray and/or battery still in place.. but it's much less of a faff with them out.

Note that the bleed nipple might not be a proper nipple, as traditional on the brake calipers, etc. If it's like the 1.2, there will be a screw (allen head) next to the nipple that opens the fluid channel, so unscrew that, rather than trying to unscrew the nipple itself (it's moulded to the slave, so you'll only break it).

Ralf S.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I would agree gearbox level urgently, and bleed the clutch slave cylinder. The oil at the business end could be foul and you would never know it. My 2017 TA4x4 spat its clutch slave out fairly early but that was just a pedal that failed to come back up after use. Bleeding the clutch on our 169 made a HUGE improvement to bad gear changes, as did changing its geabox oil. Its chnage is now very good I hope its one of these things as they are easily dealt with at lowish cost. SOme on here have noted that the slave cylinder gets sticky. A little WD silicon under teh dust rubber may help,
Good luck.

 

[varesecrazy]

I now realise the Twinair shares the DOT4 reservoir with the brake system and levels are good.

Can I assume you would take the battery and tray out then loosen the bleed nipple and have someone push the pedal to release any trapped air?

Did you resolve these issues?