Technical DIY Servicing Panda

[Theleman]

Yes you're right. Not general service tools.

The plug leads and plugs themselves can be quite awkward can't they. The leads on our Panda came off quite easily last time i worked on them but one lead in particular on my boy's Punto put up a hell of a fight. Unfortunately I ended up cracking some of the hard plastic on it. It runs without any miss firing but I'll be ordering a new set of leads next time I have an order going in to Mick at shop4parts.

You say the EML is still lit on the dashboard. just for my own interest, do you have any codes showing on your nice new code reader?

I was worried about possible breaking the HT leads during pulling them out, because they were not budging for half on hour, so I had to spray some WD40 around the base using the spray straw on the can, and had to wait.

In the end, I got out old long nose pliers to grab them and leveraged, and they came out. I couldn't see the spark plug holes very well because they were so deeply hidden obstructed by many cables above it, and it was dark. The moment that I put spark plug on the hole and wrench on top it, the view get blocked. It was all guessing job taking them out, and putting the new ones in. Very fiddly job it was.

And EML error codes, they have not changed from the very first time when read.

P0135
P0141
P0443

The JDiag OBD reader works well. It also checks battery status from the menu.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Your first two codes, as you probably know, are heater circuit related to the oxygen sensor. Unplug it and do a continuity check on the heater wires. On mine they are the 2 white wires. It's very common to find them open circuit. Of course you might have a connector problem or a break in wiring somewhere but probably, if you can't see anything obvious with the wires or connector, it's going to be the sensor itself. A word of warning with sensors in general - buy the best. Manufacturer's original or big name (NGK for example) to OEM spec. Generic, universal fitting components are a nightmare. I've tried them twice ('cos they're cheap) and both times I ended up ditching them and buying from the Dealer - which is expensive. I tend not to buy electronic parts from the local factor. I haven't needed one recently but I would buy a Fiat one from Mick at shop4parts with confidence. For my boy's Astra? I'd go to Autovaux. For the SEAT and Skoda stuff it would be TPS.

The third code I'm not so familiar with so I googled it. It relates to the evap purge control valve (solenoid) so probably either the valve itself needs replacing or you have a problem with the connector or wiring. I've never had to test one on a Fiat yet but if you had MES I would bet it would let you drive it via the actuation commands and you might hear it "clicking" or you could back probe the connector for power.

Anyone else with more knowledge than me please do contribute. I'm very keen to learn for myself where all this stuff is concerned!

Best wishes
Jock

 

[Theleman]

Thanks for your info Jock.

Do I need to get the Lambda sensor socket for taking it out? Or normal socket can do the job?

 

[Theleman]

Or even adjustable spanner?

 

[DaveMcT]

They can be tight, the cable is not detachable so you will need a ring spanner.

 

[Theleman]

They can be tight, the cable is not detachable so you will need a ring spanner.

Not sure if the cable / cable end will pass through the ring of the ring spanner to place the ring onto the nut of the sensor.

 

[DaveMcT]

Not sure if the cable / cable end will pass through the ring of the ring spanner to place the ring onto the nut of the sensor.

Sorry I was not being clear. The sensor cable connector probably wont go through the spanner but for removing a faulty sensor - just chop the wire. They are often very well stuck so an open end spanner is likely to chew the hex flats.

Open end or special hex ended flare spanner will be needed for fitting the new one. Use a little high temperature anti seize but be VERY careful to not contaminate the sensor itself. Also DO NOT use silicone (grease or sealer) as it can poison the sensor. And it wont handle the temperature so best avoided.

Here's some handy stuff - http://www.walkerproducts.com/resources/technical-support/common-oxygen-sensor-conditions/

 

[Theleman]

Sorry I was not being clear. The sensor cable connector probably wont go through the spanner but for removing a faulty sensor - just chop the wire. They are often very well stuck so an open end spanner is likely to chew the hex flats.

Open end or special hex ended flare spanner will be needed for fitting the new one. Use a little high temperature anti seize but be VERY careful to not contaminate the sensor itself. Also DO NOT use silicone (grease or sealer) as it can poison the sensor. And it wont handle the temperature so best avoided.

Here's some handy stuff - http://www.walkerproducts.com/resources/technical-support/common-oxygen-sensor-conditions/

It's OK. I was going to unplug it without cutting the cable, and check if it is still usable. Maybe some problem with the connection or wiring hopefully avoiding buying new one.

But it seems I will have to buy the sensor socket which is cut out on the body for the cable to go through during unplugging process.

New sensors from quality OEM makers seem quite pricey.

BTW, thanks for the link. It will be great help for checking the state of the sensor when unplugged.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I bought a "proper" set of sockets on Ebay (3 in the set) they really weren't expensive. I didn't have them when I took the one out of my boy's Escort. I had already tested the heater wires with it in place and found them open circuit so i just cut the wires off and used a deep, single hex, impact socket. It put up quite a fight but my "trusty" Britool power bar slackened it off.
I wasn't recommending you buy from a main dealer (you haven't won the lottery have you?) but don't go for the very cheapest option you can find and definitely not a "universal" one.
I haven't done one for a wee while but all the latest ones I've seen either have a wee sachet of special grease in their package or have pre-lubed threads. If you are applying the lube yourself don't be "over generous" and above all keep it just on the threads, don't get it anywhere near the "business end"! If the threads in the manifold are not good you can buy a tap to clean them up quite cheaply on ebay too.

 

[Theleman]

No, haven't won the lotto yet wish I had.

No I was not going to buy them from official dealers. But as you advised not cheapest ones either.

I wanted to try get the sensor working if possible, so I will not cut the cable, and unplug it, and check it with my Multimeter.
If it is not functioning, then fair enough need to buy one at that point.

For that I do need the sensor socket set. I think wife will volunteer getting one from Amazon, since I bought so many other tools recently

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

No, haven't won the lotto yet wish I had.

No I was not going to buy them from official dealers. But as you advised not cheapest ones either.

I wanted to try get the sensor working if possible, so I will not cut the cable, and unplug it, and check it with my Multimeter.
If it is not functioning, then fair enough need to buy one at that point.

For that I do need the sensor socket set. I think wife will volunteer getting one from Amazon, since I bought so many other tools recently

I hope you find something "fixable" but Oxygen sensors tend to either work or not and often it's the heater circuit which has packed in. The connector plug is always worth a good look and the wiring loom on the car which tends to get shaken around by the engine moving on it's mounts.

Anyway, good luck, keep us informed
regards
J

 

[koalar]

Of course the errors are still present.

nothing done so far addresses the fault


I wrote in the another thread about diagnosing the original problem


as both the evac and heater are reporting a fault I would start by checking they are receiving power before taking them out.

Fuses, relays and wiring damage. Un plug the connector and if there is low resistance between the two white cables of the lambda the heater within the sensor will be fine

I was worried about possible breaking the HT leads during pulling them out, because they were not budging for half on hour, so I had to spray some WD40 around the base using the spray straw on the can, and had to wait.

In the end, I got out old long nose pliers to grab them and leveraged, and they came out. I couldn't see the spark plug holes very well because they were so deeply hidden obstructed by many cables above it, and it was dark. The moment that I put spark plug on the hole and wrench on top it, the view get blocked. It was all guessing job taking them out, and putting the new ones in. Very fiddly job it was.

And EML error codes, they have not changed from the very first time when read.

P0135
P0141
P0443

The JDiag OBD reader works well. It also checks battery status from the menu.

 

[Theleman]

Yup, 7 piece sensor socket set ordered, and should arrive on Wednesday.
It was good price with plastic hardcase.

Yes, will follow the instruction, and get the sensor checked out before and after un plugging.

Hopefully it will work with the cable cleaned, but if the heater gone bad not working, then will source a new one.

Will keep you informed with progress and result. Thanks

 

[Theleman]

Again the youtuber ChrisFix video on how to check and replace oxygen sensor seems clearest among many other videos on the topic.

 

[koalar]

correct.

On the panda its two white wires you need to measure.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Again the youtuber ChrisFix video on how to check and replace oxygen sensor seems clearest among many other videos on the topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kr-c8eBl5E

Yup. Good stuff. Notice how carefully the anti seize has been applied to the threads. none on the "business end" of the sensor is there?

 

[Theleman]

Sensor socket set arrived. They are 22mm 27mm and 29mm in various shapes.
Looks good.

 

[jimboy]

Slightly old thread & not so much what tools but storage idea. Over the decades I have accumulated many tools & when I come to do a specific job, it can be a bit of a ferret around to find the tools I need. I know this will sound obvious & easy but I have a wee leather bag full of tools that are all brake related. I also have other wee bags that I store stuff for exhaust related, & for oil & filter changes.

Believe me, looking for tools that you need can drive you nuts, especially so with the amount of stuff I have, just makes life that wee bit easier, saves me getting grumpy as well.....:bang: