Technical Difficulty selecting gears when hot

[J4MALD1N]

Hi all!

I've been having some issues with my Punto Evo. Was wondering if anyone else has had anything similar before I shell out on possible culprits.

When idling for some time i.e. in traffic or driving around in low speed areas for a while, my gearbox becomes very stiff to shift. Selecting 1st/2nd and sometimes 3rd/4th becomes quite difficult and it requires considerable force getting it into gear. The worst is reverse. It's honestly no different to shifting without depressing the clutch (painful noises).

With the car off, it shifts perfectly fine. I actually utilise start-stop to engage 1st or reverse gear. To add to this, with the car cold, it is also fine. Where it gets strange is that it's also fine on a long (motorway) journey; I had driven 120 miles in country lanes and motorways without issue. It's mainly during idle or traffic situations where it does this, thus, leading me to believe heat is part of the reason.

The clutch bite does also seem to be on the floor in these situations opposed to higher up when the car/weather is cool.

A quick inspection shows no leaks at all and the clutch is fine with no slippage although at nearly 70k miles, may be looking a little thin. Gearbox oil has been changed with Tutela Technyx about 6 months ago.

I am now eyeing up the below possible causes;
- Possible Brake/Clutch Fluid Renewal (Current isn't too dirty)
- Possible Slave Cylinder
- Possible Gear Cables (Unlikely)
- Possible Clutch, particularly the Pressure Plate

If anyone is able to shed some light on this, I'd be grateful. It is an annoying issue and I'd love to get it sorted.

- I did see a thread of someone installing a spacer on the slave cylinder. Did plan on replicating however I'd love to fix the issue than work around it.

 

[AndyRKett]

Hi all!

I've been having some issues with my Punto Evo. Was wondering if anyone else has had anything similar before I shell out on possible culprits.

When idling for some time i.e. in traffic or driving around in low speed areas for a while, my gearbox becomes very stiff to shift. Selecting 1st/2nd and sometimes 3rd/4th becomes quite difficult and it requires considerable force getting it into gear. The worst is reverse. It's honestly no different to shifting without depressing the clutch (painful noises).

With the car off, it shifts perfectly fine. I actually utilise start-stop to engage 1st or reverse gear. To add to this, with the car cold, it is also fine. Where it gets strange is that it's also fine on a long (motorway) journey; I had driven 120 miles in country lanes and motorways without issue. It's mainly during idle or traffic situations where it does this, thus, leading me to believe heat is part of the reason.

The clutch bite does also seem to be on the floor in these situations opposed to higher up when the car/weather is cool.

A quick inspection shows no leaks at all and the clutch is fine with no slippage although at nearly 70k miles, may be looking a little thin. Gearbox oil has been changed with Tutela Technyx about 6 months ago.

I am now eyeing up the below possible causes;
- Possible Brake/Clutch Fluid Renewal (Current isn't too dirty)
- Possible Slave Cylinder
- Possible Gear Cables (Unlikely)
- Possible Clutch, particularly the Pressure Plate

If anyone is able to shed some light on this, I'd be grateful. It is an annoying issue and I'd love to get it sorted.

- I did see a thread of someone installing a spacer on the slave cylinder. Did plan on replicating however I'd love to fix the issue than work around it.

I have noted in your Profile pic is a Mk2b and you've posted in the Evo section, can you just confirm which model you have?

I would like to recall a very similar problem I had years back on a Mk2b which the big end seal was leaking and the result was engine oil fouling the clutch. when it got hot the clutch impregnated with engine oil would swell and then not fully release. making it hard to shift, but when the car was switched off everything was fine and the clutch and gearbox all seemed normal.

I can't say that's what's going on with your car but it may be a similar issue, something has contaminated the clutch such as engine or gearbox oil and heat is causing it to swell slightly (and it only needs to be very slight) with heat.

 

[J4MALD1N]

I have noted in your Profile pic is a Mk2b and you've posted in the Evo section, can you just confirm which model you have?

I would like to recall a very similar problem I had years back on a Mk2b which the big end seal was leaking and the result was engine oil fouling the clutch. when it got hot the clutch impregnated with engine oil would swell and then not fully release. making it hard to shift, but when the car was switched off everything was fine and the clutch and gearbox all seemed normal.

I can't say that's what's going on with your car but it may be a similar issue, something has contaminated the clutch such as engine or gearbox oil and heat is causing it to swell slightly (and it only needs to be very slight) with heat.

Oh, that's my old Mk2b that was written off by an uninsured driver.

The car I'm referring to above is a Punto Evo 1.4 8v.

Hmm. I'll probably poke a borescope camera into the little opening on the bell housing under the thermostat to see if there's any signs of oil leaking onto or around the clutch. As the bite of the clutch changes, that is a probable cause. Still strange that it only does it when idling for long periods of time...

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Yes, cheap USB camera will do the job (major leaks or mechanical wear, damage).
Common problem (weak point) is a fork and plastic bearings (bushings), they wear fast and kill the release bearing (because the fork is tilted/crooked), wear pattern on the diaphragm spring is off-center (non concentric). Classic failure mode of those clutches.
Most mechanics swap the clutches improperly (they neglect, ignore the fork/plastic bushes).

Slave cylinders are sketchy too (leaks). Good clutch will "bleed" itself.
If you need to bleed the air periodically, to make clutch perform better, this is 100% sign of the fault in the system.
The gearboxes (C514) are not perfect too. But most of the time they work OK, but develop noises, more "play" (operation, gear switching is more clunky, not stiff).