Technical Different ignition, same problem.

[Toshi 975]

I have made a point of stocking up on old stock condensers after doing some extensive research and reading. There are loads of reports on many makes and models of classic cars where new condensers have failed, sometimes even straight out of the box. On one interesting study a guy had done an analysis of why a number of new condensers had failed. He pulled them apart to find the faults and identified two main issues, failed connection between the wire lead and the internal windings, secondly poor internal insulation and short circuits. Conclusion was that the manufacturing of new condensers was extremely shoddy and just because it says Magnetti Marelli on the box does not mean a quality item. One report actually suggested touring scrap yards to harvest old condensers.
My conclusion would be that you are better off fitting an old condenser that approximates to the right fitting rather than a new one. The original 500 unit was rated at 0.15 mf and the 126 at 0.25 mf. The manufacturing tolerances for the rating are very broad so there were many old Fiats that made use of 0.22 mf condensers which are pretty much in the right range.

 

[bugsymike]

I have made a point of stocking up on old stock condensers after doing some extensive research and reading. There are loads of reports on many makes and models of classic cars where new condensers have failed, sometimes even straight out of the box. On one interesting study a guy had done an analysis of why a number of new condensers had failed. He pulled them apart to find the faults and identified two main issues, failed connection between the wire lead and the internal windings, secondly poor internal insulation and short circuits. Conclusion was that the manufacturing of new condensers was extremely shoddy and just because it says Magnetti Marelli on the box does not mean a quality item. One report actually suggested touring scrap yards to harvest old condensers.
My conclusion would be that you are better off fitting an old condenser that approximates to the right fitting rather than a new one. The original 500 unit was rated at 0.15 mf and the 126 at 0.25 mf. The manufacturing tolerances for the rating are very broad so there were many old Fiats that made use of 0.22 mf condensers which are pretty much in the right range.
View attachment 489012

That's a name from the past CI, Commercial Ignition.

 

[giardini]

My thinking is that millions of cars left the factory with the condenser mounted on the distributor, so unless you’re building a dedicated race car, it’s hard to see why the original location would be a problem.

Just to take the mickey, after over two decades I never replaced the condenser or coil on the Giardi, never even looked under the regulator
cover, BUT I keep a spare condenser and a set of points hanging from the rear view mirror, furry dice-style, so THAT works...

 

[bugsymike]

Just to take the mickey, after over two decades I never replaced the condenser or coil on the Giardi, never even looked under the regulator
cover, BUT I keep a spare condenser and a set of points hanging from the rear view mirror, furry dice-style, so THAT works...

I do think as has been mentioned modern ones are poorly made and secondly many owners spend their time tinkering with their cars leaving the ignition on whilst maybe fault finding on the lighting or wiring etc. and at the same time overheating their coils and condensors along with burning the contact points, cars didn't need condensor changing very often and I can only recall one or two ignition coils I have changed in well over 50 years working full time.

 

[jackwhoo]

That's a name from the past CI, Commercial Ignition.

Yep it's back and Chinese along with Lucas and fuel parts )-:

 

[the hobbler]

A couple of "points" when fitting new points I always put a little high melting point grease on the cam lobes and a small bit on the fibre heel of the moving contact of the points where it touches the cam. Obviously making sure none on the actual contacts. If done like that correctly then I would expect any car I had serviced back then to have no issues between 6000 mile plus service intervals where I always fitted new points and checked the old ones as I described.
The other thing is I am surprised the old Mini condensor didn't work unless it was already duff. Roughly 500mfd?
If when out to a breakdown and found the points were the problem I would always inspect the contact area before cleaning them (if I didn't have a spare set) if the contacts were "blue and pitted" this indicates the condensor is faulty as it is there to prevent arcing at the points by providing a rapid fall in current/volts as the open and shut. If the contacts were a light grey colour then usually they would only need re gaping if they had simply closed up, the reason for closing up is failure to do what I said earlier, of grease on the cam lobe and heel of the points.
If the points condition indicated a faulty condensor but I didn't have one with me, the get you home trick I used was, back in those days coils often had a capacitator/condensor fitted to the switch/12 volt supply side of the coil as a radio interference device (often dynamos caused a raising and falling crackle on the car radio or a ticking noise from the HT ignition side) I would move that condensor/capacitator to the CB/points side of the coil and it would do the job of the condensor inside the distributor, once I removed the original as sometimes they short to earth on failing.
Another thing that will shorten the life of contact points/condensors and ignition coils , is leaving the ignition on whilst doing other jobs on the car like testing lights or even listening to the radio when "courting" was a favourite cause of a breakdown, always embarrassing especially if the girls father has to come out to start their car.
Possibly the points overheating due to above wouldn't be experienced on small outboards where fitted with contact points is once engine stops then no power from the mag to the points to overheat them?
Just found this re MFDs on radio suppressors " Dynamo suppressor (2.2uf" I am not an electrician, but I can confirm they did work as a "get you home" repair job until correct parts were fitted.

As has been pointed out by a number of people (including me), most 'patter' condensers are rubbish---built to a very poor quality. I have found a Company in England who make their oen very high quality condensers---"The Distributor Doctor". Although their condensers are mainly made as Lucas replacements, there are a number of their condensers the can. with a bit of 'fettling' of the fitment bracket, be made to fit the 500/126 distributor. I have used their condenser, part number:---484249 (with long-tail bracket) very successfully

 

[bugsymike]

As has been pointed out by a number of people (including me), most 'patter' condensers are rubbish---built to a very poor quality. I have found a Company in England who make their oen very high quality condensers---"The Distributor Doctor". Although their condensers are mainly made as Lucas replacements, there are a number of their condensers the can. with a bit of 'fettling' of the fitment bracket, be made to fit the 500/126 distributor. I have used their condenser, part number:---484249 (with long-tail bracket) very successfully

Even back in the 1970s when the recognised companies like Lucas, Bosch,CI, Marelli, etc. were getting harder to find at local stockists, companies like Intermotor came along and in the early days their products were very poor and these days good suppliers are very limited.
As I have mentioned about ignition switches being supplied for Fiat 124s etc. online being the same Russian ones that we used to have fail in the showrooms on brand new Ladas in mid 70s!