diesel performance

[joerg]

re re re for ******** sake

how much are diesel and petrol right now in the uk? in austria diesel is about 0,67 eur and petrol (91% octane; cheapest here) about 0,95 (not sure... could be more)

my car now needs about 9,5 l/100km. but i have to admit that i just can't get enough of the newly won power (and speeding isn't expensive here; 21 eur for 130 kph overland; 100 allowed....... and there aren't too many policemen around with their lasers; and we haven't got a point system). as soon as i calm down and got some serious fuel consumption results i'll let you know

 

[Chris B]

Fantastically Wrong!

Nigel, you've let me down. Here I was thinking you'd stopped talking shite. Of course I will have to get defensive over my beloved JTD so here it goes!

1. I bought the diesel not because I am tight or (god forbid) own a caravan, but because I do a fair few miles every year and it would save a bit of cash.

2. As for performance, the JTD without modifications is fairly nippy. True, not the fastest car, but for a diesel (or a petrol comparitive) it isn't at all bad.

3. My car has one or two tweaks, namely a K & N filer and a tuning box. Both of these modifications have increased the power to an estimated 135-140bhp.

4. As for emissions, my car passed it's MOT last month. The guy at the garage said the emissions read out was comparable with a petrol engine, so I don't think I've got anything to worry about.

5. By the looks of things, I also get free Air Conditioning, and can return 600+ miles out of a tank on the motorway.

6. As for being a pain in the arse on the A and M roads. Well, there's always going to be someone faster than yourself, and you'd be daft to think the the HGT is some kind of supercar itself.

TTFN

 

[wally]

For """"" sake

Nigel I'm disappointed with your post, Sounds like your trying to justify having a gas guzzler (jaguar) by running diesels down, what's wrong with trying to improve your cars performance a little. I've recently drove to Scotland from swales and not many cars past me, if you and I were to travel to Scotland and sustain 90mph for 400miles then well work out how much it costs me diesel verses you in the Jag or bravo hgt.

 

[wally]

nigel

ps: I have nothing against the hgt I think its a nice car but I can't afford the insurance or the fuel economy, but if you can? that's good for you, that does not make the diesels crap!!

 

[Nigel]

Diesels

Nope, diesels are shite. Buses use diesel, trucks use diesel and so do agricultural vehicles. Cars shouldn't.

I had a TD for 6 months and I hated EVERYTHING about it.

As for justifying the gas guzzler - nah, its my indulgance and decide with my heart not head why I bought the damn thing, but I only do 6,000 miles in it so the fuel cost doesnt really matter.

My original point was asking why do you buy a diesel then spend the money you allegedly save trying to make it perform like a petrol. Even to someone who spends money on cars like I do it is a bit pointless. Even more so than trying to make a 1.6 perform like a 1.8!

N

 

[Chris B]

Steady

Careful, you don't want to **** 1.6 owners off as well do you? You'll be swapping gardening tips on the Jaguar forum before too long.

That said, I take your point on spending cash making a diesel perform like a petrol. It does seem a little crazy, but bear in mind I still have the economy of a diesel. For someone like yourself who only does 6,000 miles a year it doesn't really matter, but for others (like myself) it means I have more money to spend on beer and the like.

I think you've just got the hump because you're £215 lighter on the old insurance front. Nevermind, it will all be better in the morning.

 

[wally]

nigel

You are such a knob head, because a diesel wasn't right for what you wanted, it makes it crap? Spoilt brat springs to mind.

 

[Nick]

Food for thought, Nigel

Taken from http://www.jagweb.com/jagworld/news0301.html

A diesel Jaguar - at last?
One important question remains on the topic of Jaguar power units: when, finally, are we to see the first diesel-engined Jaguar? Such a power unit has become of increasing importance in the European market where both BMW and Mercedes-Benz offer successful diesel models,. Up until now Jaguar engineers have rejected available diesel engines as being too unrefined, but an answer could lie in Volvo's new D5 unit which made its debut at Geneva this month.

Part of the Premier Automotive Group along with Jaguar, Volvo has expressed interest in selling its new engine to other PAG members, and is already contemplating building six and eight cylinder versions of the present five cylinder unit for up-market applications.

 

[Nigel]

Thats MISTER knobhead to you!

Firstly this ****ing web site is really pissing me off now. I write things then post them then I get an action cancelled message. Sorry if I come across pissed off but so would you be 3rd time lucky.

Anyhow!

1. I do over 30,000 miles not 6,000, thats just the 2nd car

2. Why insult me persoanlly becuase you couldn't argue technically on the diesel front, Wally. My comments were regarding the reasons to try and make a non performance engine into a performance engine to start with! I may be a knobhead but it doesnt alter the technical argument.

3. Nooooooo firstly my beloved Alfa put a diesel in the 156, so I sold my 2.5 (not really - I had also twisted the chasis!) and now Jaguar. Who next, Maserati!!

4. There is a lot of investigation into diesel omissions at the moment, the outcome of which my not be favourable to diesel owners. I hope not, as NO motorist should be shat on by the ****ing Labour bastards as much as we have recently.

Sorry to upset once again

Your friendly knobhead

 

[Nigel]

Pissed off

****ing site pissed me off again!

I missed point 6 Chris!

Diesels are a pain in the arse because they havent got the midrange thrudge to get passed anything so they sit nose to tail behind their caravan chugging mates. On an open road even a 3 wheeler will do 60.

On the M way they pull out into the outside lane and go screaming from 69 to 71 in under aminute causing clouds of smoke and peole stamping on the brakes in their wake. Sorry, it happens all the time!

However, there are worse things on the road. Frigging MPV's like the Ford Galaxative and VW Shaggin. I drove a 2.3 ford and it was superb, like a transit van with all round visibility.

Not only that, I beleive they do a...er..noooo Diesel version.

As for the HGT not being the most fantastic car on the road. Whisper that mate 'cos when I said it I got ripped to shreds! The Jags a bit tasty between 50 and 100 though...however it does need to be re-fuelled if it is a line of more than 5 cars! Then it breaks down and everyone goes passed again...oh well

Yours, as ever in jest

nige

 

[Chris B]

Ho Ho

You make me laugh Nigel! Were you picked on at school? Honestly though, everyone is entitled to their opinions, that's what this forum is for. I wish that I could prove you wrong on a number of points but I think it would be rather fruitless.

Anyroad, seing as you've laid all your cards on the table - ie. yu're so against diesels, I thought I'd let you into a little secret....I ****ing hate Jags!

Funny old world ain't it?

 

[Dug]

Re: Ho Ho

I was thinking of getting a diesel when I bought my 80sx: I do a lot of miles. I decided on the 1.2 petrol in the end:
- It does 48mpg on a run, so a diesel offered no real saving (especially as it's more expensive than petrol in the UK).

- It doesn't wake all the neighbours with the rattle of a dustbin full of spanners, when I leave early in the morning.

- It doesn't pour black clouds out behind it.

- It was cheaper to buy, and it's cheaper to service

- It's quiet.

- It doesn't shake my fillings loose.

- The fuel doesn't stink and I don't have to go ice-skating after standing next to the fuel pump.

- It's free-revving and fun to drive.

Some diesels I've driven have been good fun, but this tends to be limited to large, expensive saloons. I really dislike diesels in smaller cars: there's no huge cost difference, and the petrol is much nicer to live with.

 

[Chris B]

Interesting

Don't you start!

- It does 48mpg on a run, so a diesel offered no real saving (especially as it's more expensive than petrol in the UK).
I GET 600+ MILES OUT OF A TANK ON MOTORWAYS. BASICALLY OVER 50MPG

- It doesn't wake all the neighbours with the rattle of a dustbin full of spanners, when I leave early in the morning.
DIESELS ARE SLIGHTLY NOISIER IN IDLE. BUT NOT AS MUCH AS THE OLDER MODELS

- It doesn't pour black clouds out behind it.
NEITHER DOES MINE AS I USE AN ENGINE CLEANER TO STOP CARBON BUILD UP

- It was cheaper to buy, and it's cheaper to service
THATS BECAUSE IT IS A SMALL ENGINED CAR, THE ENTRY LEVEL IF YOU WISH

- It's quiet.
APPART FROM THE FACT YOU HAVE TO FLOOR IT TO GET IT TO PERFORM? THE DIESELS WILL CRUISE AT 90 AT ABOUT 3000REVS

- It doesn't shake my fillings loose.
?

- The fuel doesn't stink and I don't have to go ice-skating after standing next to the fuel pump.
BOTH PETROL AND DIESEL SMELL, AND MY DIESEL GOES IN THE TANK NOT ON THE FLOOR


- It's free-revving and fun to drive.


Without wanting to start a debate on the Diesel v Petrol, how the **** do you think the 80sx is a better car?

 

[wally]

diesel

Just to expand on the diesel argument I think another point is that the diesels are designed to deal with big mileage 300k plus if serviced regular, it also does this mileage with performance and economy. People have got in my car and when I've told them it's a diesel, they have been amazed so this old story of the rattle noisy diesel is bullshit. My wife uses the car daily and loves it, especially the torque, about the diesel spill comment the old days the petrol stations used to have the same pump for trucks and cars but not any more, they have diesel pumps for cars only. I think that at the end of the day its still a bravo whether its diesel or petrol, because it diesel that makes it crap I don't think so my bravo is a nice looking car and it is fast enough for me maybe faster than some petrol options! 1 more point is 100bhp on the td with group 6 insurance great!! £240 a year fully comp that includes my wife and I.

 

[Barakka]

This thread is cool... BANZAI !!!

Don't you start!
Who will win place your bets now...

- It does 48mpg on a run, so a diesel offered no real saving (especially as it's more expensive than petrol in the UK).
I GET 600+ MILES OUT OF A TANK ON MOTORWAYS. BASICALLY OVER 50MPG

So 50mpg compared to 48mpg... and diesel is more expensive than unleaded so the difference is negligible - Nigel wins ! (as that was his point in the 1st place)

- It doesn't wake all the neighbours with the rattle of a dustbin full of spanners, when I leave early in the morning.
DIESELS ARE SLIGHTLY NOISIER IN IDLE. BUT NOT AS MUCH AS THE OLDER MODELS

diesels are noiser than petrol cars - Nigel wins !

- It doesn't pour black clouds out behind it.
NEITHER DOES MINE AS I USE AN ENGINE CLEANER TO STOP CARBON BUILD UP

so not if you spend time and money on something to stop it smoking! - Nigel wins!

- It was cheaper to buy, and it's cheaper to service
THATS BECAUSE IT IS A SMALL ENGINED CAR, THE ENTRY LEVEL IF YOU WISH

So it Was cheaper to buy and insure ! - Nigel wins !

- It's quiet.
APPART FROM THE FACT YOU HAVE TO FLOOR IT TO GET IT TO PERFORM? THE DIESELS WILL CRUISE AT 90 AT ABOUT 3000REVS

True to get 90 out of a 1.2 you'd be doing about 4,500 revs - so that's a point to Chris, but there isn't a road in the UK where it's legal to do 90 - is that a point to Nigel again ? well as response didn't actually relate to topic raised it's a point each.

- It doesn't shake my fillings loose.
?

sorry no response - no points !

- The fuel doesn't stink and I don't have to go ice-skating after standing next to the fuel pump.
BOTH PETROL AND DIESEL SMELL, AND MY DIESEL GOES IN THE TANK NOT ON THE FLOOR

Oooo he's catching up !

- It's free-revving and fun to drive.
Without wanting to start a debate on the Diesel v Petrol, how the **** do you think the 80sx is a better car?

Sorry small print of rules state no expletives - no point !

Final result -
Nigel 5
Chris 2

So if you said Nigel YOU A WINNER !!!

BANZAI !

Please note the names mentioned above bear no reseblance to any persons living or dead - it's all light hearted fun - if you think different then PPPPPFFFFFFTTTTTT !!!

 

[Dug]

Re: diesel

Chris:

I think my 1.2 petrol is better than a diesel, because it offers almost the same fuel economy, it's quiet, and it cost me £6,999 new. It's cheaper than walking. Also, the engine is really light, so my car handles better. 80bhp is more than adequate for driving to work: it'll sit all day at 85mph, and it's such a revvy engine that it's easy to overtake anything travelling at less than 60mph on A and B roads. This is my commuting car: presumably your diesel is the same? (Who chooses a diesel for the fun factor??)

I don't like driving diesels as much as petrol engines. There's too much vibration, the engines are heavy, and the cost/regularity of servicing means you don't save very much in running costs.

You may stick your diesel in the tank, but others seem more than capable of spilling it: there's always a black patch near the diesel pumps around here.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: This thread is cool... BANZAI !!!

- It's quiet.
APPART FROM THE FACT YOU HAVE TO FLOOR IT TO GET IT TO PERFORM? THE DIESELS WILL CRUISE AT 90 AT ABOUT 3000REVS

True to get 90 out of a 1.2 you'd be doing about 4,500 revs - so that's a point to Chris, but there isn't a road in the UK where it's legal to do 90 - is that a point to Nigel again ? well as response didn't actually relate to topic raised it's a point each.

I don't think its a point to Nigel as we all know that he is familiar with 90 mph and beyond, so being able to cruise at 90 at a 'relaxed' rpm is a definite plus for the diesel!

 

[Chris B]

Horses for courses

Dug

There are pros and cons on both sides. It pisses me off when people label all diesels like they are buses or whatever. I hope I haven't come accross as being too aggresive! The technology in the new Fiat diesel engines is being used in Pugs and Ford (and because Ford own Jaguar, the 2.0 diesel engine will be used in their first ever diesel car!). In some countries over on the continent diesel sales have overtaken petrol, this simply would not be the case had technology not advanced from the noisy, smelly diesel cars of yesteryear.

As I've probably already mentioned, my JTD is quick with a estimated 135-140bhp, and still returns 600 miles out of a tank on the motorway. I know which I'd rather drive for long distances, again it just comes down to preference. It's a bit of a weak argument to say that a quieter car is somehow better. And as diesel engines rev less than petrol, they are quieter at higher revs! Loads of people on this forum add filters, induction kits, exhaust systems etc to increase both performance and noise! So, the only possible benefit of having a 80sx would be it's lighter stearing!

The servicing of diesels is very similar to petrol counterparts, the only addition being the more regular oil / oil filter replacement. And as Wally mentioned, they'll last for ever with regular servicing. As for me, I'll probably change it next year, maybe for a Petrol, as I won't be doing as many miles!

 

[Dug]

Re: Horses for courses

Chris: the main reason diesels are so popular in Europe is that diesel is half the price of petrol in most of the continent. It means the average man in the street can afford to run a huge Merc or Beemer, as long as it's diesel.

Just because an engine is running at lower revs doesn't mean it's quieter: generators run at 1500rpm, and they're noisy as hell. And I personally prefer a quiet car: I think a lot of people do (well, for driving to work, anyway).

Diesels aren't quite the bullet-proof lumps that some people claim: they tend to be more prone to head gasket failure, and repairs tend to cost a lot more. I agree they don't wear out as quick, but I doubt any Fiat will survive to 300k miles, regardless of the engine that's in it.

In addition, the high compression they need means that the diesel engine needs to be stronger, and therefore heavier: heavier engines in small cars tend to affect the handling, making them more prone to understeer (it also has a detrimental affect on braking). Try a 1.2 petrol Bravo: I bet it handles better than your diesel (the comparison is definitely true for Fiestas, Pug 306s, Golfs, etc).

 

[Dug]

Banzai?

Err, it was me that made the points, how did Nigel get 5 points?