Copart car

[AnthonyH]

I bid on a Fiat 500X today and "won" the online auction on the copart website. It was more than I wanted to pay, and doing all of the calcs a fair price. I won with £1500, so with fees i'd be paying £2150. It was Category N and needing a fair amount of body work and new panels, i'd estimate another £500 for parts. At 81,000 miles there probably wasn't going to be much wrong with it mechanically. So all in i'd be paying around £2650 (+ my free labour) for a car that if you believe Autotrader would be worth £3500-£4000. So after I won I could see that the winning bid was awaiting approval and imagined that this would be a formality. But then the seller came back saying this was below their minimum price of £2200 and i'd have to offer more money. I was gobsmacked! I refused to offer any more money, so while my original offer hasn't actually been knocked back yet i'm fully expecting that tomorrow. The website has built gaming into their system, its not good.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I bid on a Fiat 500X today and "won" the online auction on the copart website. It was more than I wanted to pay, and doing all of the calcs a fair price. I won with £1500, so with fees i'd be paying £2150. It was Category N and needing a fair amount of body work and new panels, i'd estimate another £500 for parts. At 81,000 miles there probably wasn't going to be much wrong with it mechanically. So all in i'd be paying around £2650 (+ my free labour) for a car that if you believe Autotrader would be worth £3500-£4000. So after I won I could see that the winning bid was awaiting approval and imagined that this would be a formality. But then the seller came back saying this was below their minimum price of £2200 and i'd have to offer more money. I was gobsmacked! I refused to offer any more money, so while my original offer hasn't actually been knocked back yet i'm fully expecting that tomorrow. The website has built gaming into their system, its not good.

The seller had a reserve the auction house will ask you to up the offer. If they decide that the cost of re-running the auction will offset the loss on taking the lower price then they could still come back and say “ok then you can have it “

Either way this is normal behaviour for an auction

I think you’re massively underestimating the cost of repairing it. £500 in parts is very low

 

[AnthonyH]

Some other lots state that there is a reserve price so I assumed "on approval" didn't entail a repeat of that function.

Its possible I've low balled the cost of parts. The bare minimum I'd need is a front side panel and wing mirror which would come in at around £300, so I had a contingency of another £200 for unknown issues. I can't say I'm going to be sorry if I don't get this car.

 

[AnthonyH]

So my original bid was accepted...I hope the car isn't too bad...lol

 

[PuntoHowTo]

So my original bid was accepted..l

As I suspected

Any paint work will cost a lot more then you expect.

If a panel is damaged, what behind that panel may also be damaged. Wheel, suspension, steering rack front bumper damage, bent frame etc
Airbags deployed keys present ?
If it were as simple as one panel and a wing mirror then you have to wonder why the bidding didn’t go higher.

If that is all it needs then it might have been a wise buy.

It may just be that there was no reserve but the vendor expected more and complained, so they put the sale on hold while they explained to the vendor that if they put it up for sale again, even if it did get more, with auctions fees for two auctions they may end up with less, so they caved and accepted the result of this auction

 

[AnthonyH]

I've taken a gamble for sure but I'm confident I can fix more or less anything. There is more damage to the body work than I've mentioned because it's not important to me. I'll do the paint work myself in the full knowledge that it'll look crap...I haven't washed a car for 20 years lol. My current cars have dozens of scratches, nothing major, scratches are just an opportunity to get a cheaper car! I take pride in never having crashed a car, and in learning to be the best mechanic I can be, but I don't plan on washing this car, or caring when someone scratches it. I just need to get it through an mot sometime this year lol

I'll post some pictures later.

This is my new "project" car and hobby. I hope it's not a big challenge

 

[AnthonyH]

This is the car, and its damage, I doubt i'll be able to get the car till next week so i'll know more then.

I'm hopeful i'll have fun fixing the car, rather than wanting to send it straight back to copart lol.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

You can never tell too much from a picture especially as I can only see two large pictures but from what I can see you’re looking at bumper bonnet, front quarter panel and mirror, potentially some stuff damaged behind it and it’s not sitting level so possibly suspension damage which could also mean a wheel and tire as well as needing a few plastic trim pieces.
Looks like the headlight mounts will all be broken as well. So while you might not be taking it to a body shop there is a lot to consider and you probably have seen what happens on here if there is any suggestion of bodging something or a “that’ll do” attitude, people get a bit tetchy.

 

[AnthonyH]

You can never tell too much from a picture especially as I can only see two large pictures but from what I can see you’re looking at bumper bonnet, front quarter panel and mirror, potentially some stuff damaged behind it and it’s not sitting level so possibly suspension damage which could also mean a wheel and tire as well as needing a few plastic trim pieces.
Looks like the headlight mounts will all be broken as well. So while you might not be taking it to a body shop there is a lot to consider and you probably have seen what happens on here if there is any suggestion of bodging something or a “that’ll do” attitude, people get a bit tetchy.

Hmmm, the one that i hadn't spotted was the car not sitting level on that side - it looks raised and the tyres seems fine, anyone got an idea what that could be? Maybe it does have suspension damage? Maybe its the camera that was used to take the picture?

The ad said the car runs and drives, and doesn't have structural problems so I assumed that would be the case...how it drives may be a different matter. I mean is a damaged axle for example structural or non structural? There isn't supposed to be any structural damage as its been classed as Category N.

I might have my work cut out lol.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Hmmm, the one that i hadn't spotted was the car not sitting level on that side - it looks raised and the tyres seems fine, anyone got an idea what that could be? Maybe it does have suspension damage? Maybe its the camera that was used to take the picture?

The ad said the car runs and drives, and doesn't have structural problems so I assumed that would be the case...how it drives may be a different matter. I mean is a damaged axle for example structural or non structural? There isn't supposed to be any structural damage as its been classed as Category N.

I might have my work cut out lol.

Structural is the chassis rails and frame, that doesn’t include broken springs or a bent strut.

Also runs and drives in an auction sense means they don’t have to drag it around the site and can shunt it back and forth, it doesn’t mean it’s fit for a road trip to the top of Scotland. Things can be bent, damaged and unroadworthy but it still “drive”.

In fact I’ve seen cars with holes in the gearbox which technically run and drive.

If it was an easy £500 job then someone would have outbid you who could do the work quicker, cheaper and turn an easy profit.

 

[AnthonyH]

Structural is the chassis rails and frame, that doesn’t include broken springs or a bent strut.

Also runs and drives in an auction sense means they don’t have to drag it around the site and can shunt it back and forth, it doesn’t mean it’s fit for a road trip to the top of Scotland. Things can be bent, damaged and unroadworthy but it still “drive”.

In fact I’ve seen cars with holes in the gearbox which technically run and drive.

If it was an easy £500 job then someone would have outbid you who could do the work quicker, cheaper and turn an easy profit.

The car is going to be off the road for a few months while i see what's wrong, learn what to do, buy the parts, fix it. I've already allocated it the fixing spot on the drive. I think it took me 3 months to get my first project car on the road. I'm not in any rush, and couldn't fix it in a rush anyway!

It will be challenging in a lot of respects I guess, i don't mind that and will end up with a good result, maybe it'll cost more than I imagined, but the weather is fine and scratching around under a car in the sun can be rewarding nontheless.

 

[AnthonyH]

I paid for the car and for them to deliver it. I didn't get any delivery date, just a message saying "we'll be in touch". I then went to check their website and it says delivery in 5-10 working days. A speedy service there! lol

I've done a few more calcs. Speculative ones of course.

The car is worth around £4,000 when saleable and if you believe autotrader.

A car dealer needs to make a profit of £800 on that sale price to pay costs and wages. Maybe.

The price to buy the damaged car is £2000.

£4000 - £2000 - £800 = £1200

So the car dealer will be spending £1200 to buy parts and pay labour to fix the car? Or is he expecting to make a bigger profit?

If any of these calcs look outlandish let me know.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I paid for the car and for them to deliver it. I didn't get any delivery date, just a message saying "we'll be in touch". I then went to check their website and it says delivery in 5-10 working days. A speedy service there! lol

I've done a few more calcs. Speculative ones of course.

The car is worth around £4,000 when saleable and if you believe autotrader.

A car dealer needs to make a profit of £800 on that sale price to pay costs and wages. Maybe.

The price to buy the damaged car is £2000.

£4000 - £2000 - £800 = £1200

So the car dealer will be spending £1200 to buy parts and pay labour to fix the car? Or is he expecting to make a bigger profit?

If any of these calcs look outlandish let me know.

My Punto had far less damage than that when I hit a dear and the estimate for repairs was £1400 for parts and paint. That’s done by professionals.

Until you take the panels off the full extent of the damage is not know so you have to assume worst case.

Bonnet £200
Wing £100
Headlight £150
Bumper £130
Plastic trim fittings and other fixtures maybe another £100 these are used prices not new parts.

So what’s that £680? Plus the delivery charge.
There could be other plastics and parts that are unseen that need changing or repairing

Then time even if you’re putting the time in yourself that time costs money.

Then prep and paint…. It’s metalic so paint will cost more, more time and more processes. The bonnet, bumper and wing will need painting, the other wing and door will need to be blended and the so you’re basically painting the front of the car in an notoriously difficult to match silver, therefore the costs have probably spiralled to getting on for £2k

If the car is worth £4K (is that with it without it being a registered accident vehicle as the car could be worth a lot less) at this point, so for a dealer to take a gamble on repairs coming in at less than £2k and yeah you could whack some new panels on and not paint it, drive it like that and it might be road worthy, but it would never be a saleable car

I’d still be budgeting £1000 my self for any work that needs doing, as you may still need to service it, change worn tires or do repairs on things unrelated to the accident damaged

 

[PuntoHowTo]

There are a couple on eBay right now for considerably less than £4K that might be a dealerships price but an accident damaged car with a poor repair is probably not worth anything. If repaired well maybe £2-3k

 

[AnthonyH]

A lot of food for thought there. I probably have low balled the parts, given its a write off, then repairs had to be expensive. I will be painting the panels with the correct paint colour, no inbetweeners door lol. It won't look professional, but it'll be ok...

I think i want the car driveable in a few months so i'll have to be discerning about what i fix. The MOT runs out at the end of May so i'll be getting it roadworthy first and foremost.

I don't plan on selling the car, but wouldn't be happy if it looked so bad the resale value was dramatically lower. I'll have to be careful, etc.

There were 3 category N cars on autotrader with the same year and mileage, prices were £3600, £4000, £4500, or thereabouts. I didn't check the spec of those cars just took the middle price.

I'm not fully clued up on car repair prices, seems thats why so many cars get written off.

 

[icheatatscrabble]

Take a look at Love500 on Youtube. That'll give you an idea on prices (although the 500X being not as common as a 500) of used parts.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

A lot of food for thought there. I probably have low balled the parts, given its a write off, then repairs had to be expensive. I will be painting the panels with the correct paint colour, no inbetweeners door lol. It won't look professional, but it'll be ok...

I think i want the car driveable in a few months so i'll have to be discerning about what i fix. The MOT runs out at the end of May so i'll be getting it roadworthy first and foremost.

I don't plan on selling the car, but wouldn't be happy if it looked so bad the resale value was dramatically lower. I'll have to be careful, etc.

There were 3 category N cars on autotrader with the same year and mileage, prices were £3600, £4000, £4500, or thereabouts. I didn't check the spec of those cars just took the middle price.

I'm not fully clued up on car repair prices, seems thats why so many cars get written off.

My brother owns a body shop in Norwich, so I’ve learned a lot from him over the years.

He can write a car off just in the cost of it sitting in his yard, in fact that’s really easy money for him as they just drag it in he sends the invoice for storage and a couple of days later it’s being auctioned on co part and off his property. Sometimes insurance companies can take ages before they decide what’s going on with a car so it can set for weeks without being touched

 

[AnthonyH]

Take a look at Love500 on Youtube. That'll give you an idea on prices (although the 500X being not as common as a 500) of used parts.

I took a look, he has a few 500X videos but i've seen him before and can't watch him, his camera work is too poor, (sorry if you're reading this Love500!)

 

[AnthonyH]

My brother owns a body shop in Norwich, so I’ve learned a lot from him over the years.

He can write a car off just in the cost of it sitting in his yard, in fact that’s really easy money for him as they just drag it in he sends the invoice for storage and a couple of days later it’s being auctioned on co part and off his property. Sometimes insurance companies can take ages before they decide what’s going on with a car so it can set for weeks without being touched

The value of the car before its crash would be around £5,500. So for this to be a write off the repairs would need to cost around this much? It seems over the top unless other factors are at play. I can remember seeing a story about the insurers having to pay out for a hire car at £500 per week, at that rate it would be better to write a car off fast.

I did a HPI check on this vehicle and it seems to have been written off early April, with insurers coming and going on the HPI report for the whole of that month. Before April the most recent note was on December 31. So conceivably this was a New Years Eve crash. If so not a good way to start the year ....

 

[PuntoHowTo]

The value of the car before its crash would be around £5,500. So for this to be a write off the repairs would need to cost around this much? It seems over the top unless other factors are at play. I can remember seeing a story about the insurers having to pay out for a hire car at £500 per week, at that rate it would be better to write a car off fast.

I did a HPI check on this vehicle and it seems to have been written off early April, with insurers coming and going on the HPI report for the whole of that month. Before April the most recent note was on December 31. So conceivably this was a New Years Eve crash. If so not a good way to start the year ....

Possibly indicates how long it’s been in storage somewhere, and how much money that storage might have cost.