contract validity

[Dan]

Have been doing a bit of reading up on this and slightly confuzled.

1.
I have a copy of my work contract (not photocopy) of which i have not signed my copy, only the employers copy. My understanding is that the contract is only valid if signed by both parties. They have not signed my copy, and there is no space to sign. They may have signed their copy, but am unsure. It is however on headed paper.

2.
The contract is from 2008 and has 24 days holiday stated. This is now 28, does this make this section invalid? Or does this invalidate it completely.

3.
I live in a work premises flat and was given verbally, rules to follow etc when we moved in. This is a contract isnt it? The owner now wants to draw up a written contract. Do i have to sign this? Obviously i will go over it very carefully as it may be catch free.

4.
The starting wage is alot less than what i get now, does this mean that is all they are required to pay me or does it have to be stated as a bonus if they wish to reduce wages?

Its not as serious as it sounds i just like to plan ahead. Ill move onto the reasons after i get the answers to these. Basically just a prat of a boss as you can guess.

Thanks as always.

Dan

 

[Caravadossi]

I think you can basically forget any `old’ bits of paper – although worth hanging-on to them for evidence. What is valid is – if you’ve been `offered’ work & `accepted’ it (i.e. by turning-up & carrying-out the duties) then that forms the contract … not the paper.

I believe if there’s a change (e.g. different holiday entitlement) then that would create a `new’ contract. I believe you’re entitled to the contract being written-down – but that can follow many weeks later. Whether you sign it or not, I don’t think carries a lot of weight. The employer will argue they offered you `x’ terms & you’ve been carrying-out the duties & consequently have accepted the said `x’ terms. To argue you had rejected the contract you would have to show you’d signalled that to the employer - verbally, in-writing, or by indication (e.g. not carrying-out the duties).

There is a danger with an unscrupulous employer, that should they want to change your duties & you are uncertain (or resistant) – they may come-up with the idea you might like to `trial’ the new duties to `see-how-you-get-on’, … the word `trial’ may then get dropped, when you’ve been seen to carry-out the duties.

If you’d care to expand on the specific problem – then we can work towards a more specific solution.

120220

 

[ChrisUK]

Employment law is a very grey area and nearly always is in favour of the employer!

 

[volxstu]

AFAIK if you turn up to work you are pretty much agreeing with their contract.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Employment law is a very grey area and nearly always is in favour of the employer!

Rubbish. That only appears to ever be the case because people don't understand it and don't get people who do involve when they need an issue sorting. The only time it's slightly more in favor of the employer is in the first 2 years of employment.

 

[ChrisUK]

Rubbish. That only appears to ever be the case because people don't understand it and don't get people who do involve when they need an issue sorting. The only time it's slightly more in favor of the employer is in the first 2 years of employment.

That's never been my experience but what the hell.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

That's never been my experience but what the hell.

Not that I claim to be an expert mind, it's my father who's the trade union rep, but I know what your saying and know that a lot of companies do screw workers over

 

[AndyRKett]

I'll try and answer some of these from what I know.

1. You have signed the contract with the company to say you agree to their terms of employment, they do not have to sign your copy, as that is basically for your reference. In the real world you don't have to sign a contract at all because uk law covers a wide range of things covered in any employment contract, anything that the company adds to this is up to them as long as they can justifiably show what they expect from you as an employee, signed or not. Some companies will put unenforcable stuff in contracts too which again doesn't matter if you sign it they can't enforce it (in terms of the law anyway)

2. 28days holiday is the max legal entitlement anyway if they give you more than this bonus but if you are working 24hr a day 7 days a week they don't have to give you more than this, holiday is based on the hours you work, it doesn't invalidate your contract, if they put you on limited hours because of not getting work in or something like that, it means you can still claim 24 days at least for holiday even though you are not working the hours to entitle you.

3. If the property belongs to the Company and if they want you to sign a contract, that is their right, you don't have to sign it but then they have no obligation to let you keep living there, catch free or not they can set what rules they want it is there property not yours, you have no more rights than any other tennant and probably would require no more than a months notice if they wanted you out.

4. Not sure I understand this? Have you changed jobs within a company in which case they cannot (as I understand it) lower your hourly wage, especially if you have a contract, if you are working less hours of course they can pay you less. The favourite of the bigger company would be to lay you off and may you reapply for your old job on less money.

I think you really need to explain the situation better because without knowing what you do, if your have a permanent or temporary contract, or full/part time hours, this can all make a massive difference to what you are entitled.
You would also need to speak to someone like the citizens advice Bureau

 

[Dan]

I know i havent given too much away, but that info has helped hugely even if its not quite what i wanted to hear. haha.

Basically with living on the premises they seem to be coming up with new criteria i should be meeting as part of my agreement, but the contract is very vague in such that i can work anywhere, any time and doing anything. I was just planning ahead to point out the catches with their contract if need be.

From what i have read, i can go through the new contract for the premises and cross out whatever i do not agree with or want a breakdown of, which is what i shall do. If they want to lose me as a worker for not agreeing to these, then that would be absolutely fine.

A few of the many problems i had recently are;

*The owner moaning that i turn up at a couple of minutes to 8 (start time) rather than getting there early and working unpaid to set an example

*Increasing my workload, just because another department can not remember to complete a given task and i right i document it has not been carried out. (a health and safety requirement, which is my responsibility to uphold)

*General, one rule for one, one rule for another sillyness.


However, i had a 'nice' chat with the owner yesterday and gave my honest opinion on how childish they were being currently and they seem to have respected and taken it on board. Fingers crossed.

 

[ChrisUK]

Excellent news. Hope it works out for you . Last thing anyone needs in this day and age is to be out of work!