Technical Clutch?

[grizgut]

I've got a 2007 Multi that I had remapped in the summer and have since been using to tow a caravan (3 weeks in the summer and only 1 week before that).

In the last few weeks it has developed a clutch slip and I had the clutch replaced yesterday......the nightmare is that the garage have said that the clutch still appears to be slipping, even after the new one has been fitted!

The old clutch does not show a high degree of wear, garage say they think it did not really need to be replaced. They are at a loss as to how the car can still exhibit clutch slip, even after fitting a new one.

So, I've forked out several hundred pounds for no reason

So, what else apart from the clutch slipping can show symptoms similar to clutch slip? Or is the replacement clutch simply not as 'strong' in the fingers as the old one and it's the remap thats causing the problems?

Please help!

 

[pondweed]

did they check the dual mass flywheel?
When my clutch was done they commented that it was "hardly worn". Others have mentioned it to.

 

[grizgut]

Pondweed,

They did check the DMF, they said that they thought it was OK, obviously not new but it did not appear to be faulty or too badly worn?

 

[pondweed]

can you turn the remap power off and see if makes a difference. I presume not.
Could the new thrust bearing (or whatever the finger bit is called) be faulty?

 

[grizgut]

Pondweed,

The chap that remapped the car is coming in a couple of days to take the remap off...I'm praying that this solves the problem cause if not it can only be the DMF and that means another £300 pounds in parts and another £2-300 quid labour, oh and my balls being cut off by my wife of course:bang:

 

[ANDY1965]

Hi, hate to say this but all experts recommend having the dual mass fly wheel changed at the same time as the clutch, due to the high percentage rate of failures when only the clutch is changed. As far as I am aware there is no test to check the condition of the dmf and normally it is 1 or 2 of the springs that are on there way out. I had clutch and dmf changed at the same time and no problems , another point you mite want to look into is a conversion kit so the dmf is a solid flywheel, these come with all the parts including a new clutch and sometimes work out cheaper to buy, especially if you tow a lot.

 

[pondweed]

but surely dmf would give different symptoms to that of those posted??

 

[ANDY1965]

Hi, no it wouldnt, as if you look at it logically, the dmf is technically part of the clutch, so when the clutch goes so will eventually the dmf, ie, you push the clutch pedal down, that pushes the clutch plate against the dmf which closes. Theres quite a few posts on here where people have changed the clutch and not the dmf, they either still have clutch slip or the dmf fails a few days or months down the road, so they have another expesive bill but this time for both parts as the new clutch fitted is normally knackered when the old dmf finally goes. Also the dmf is fitted to help stop (well suppose to lol) clutch judder and so they say better fuel economy. I have to admit when I got mine done, I actually bought the parts myself and the garage fitted them and it only cost me £750 including labour, as the dmf is in front of the clutch so it was only a question of undoing 4 or 5 bolts

 

[pondweed]

so what IS the multipla clutch weakness?
is it mostly due to the failing slave cylinders (i.e. their decreasing efficiency)? or are the fingers of the 'pushing bit' recognised to be weak?

 

[ANDY1965]

Its the same with all vehicles fitted with the dmf, in the old days you had the solid fly wheel, which you could skim to bring it into tolerence, ie make it like new, however the dmf you cant skim so that means as the clutch wears so does the dmf , any imperfection thats created by the clutch is compensated on the dmf springs, but only to a point, so for example if one of those springs is weak, due to the old clutch wearing down (and you cant tell if it is) when you put a new clutch on the spring cannot compensate on the presure plates, which in turn causes clutch slip, not by the new clutch, but by the old dmf. I wouldnt say its a failure, manufacturers are pushing out newer cars for better fuel and smoother driving, but they could if they can make the springs a lot stronger ( which is its weakness). If we went back to the old solid fly wheel, we would get a lot more clutch judder (not clutch slip) which isnt very healthy for the engine.

 

[ukmarc]

Just had my clutch changed i got the bits my mate charged me £200 which i think was very very reasonable as its a 6 hour job.
Marc

 

[ANDY1965]

Hi ukmarc did you change the clutch and dmf, if you have one that is, as not sure what year the dmf replaced the solid fly wheel

 

[ukmarc]

just the clutch he said dmf was fine he fits clutches for a living so took his word

 

[Zundapp]

Hi grizgut (and others contributing to this thread) - read this wee article, especially paragraph five. Might clarify a few things.

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/0701_ec_flywheels/index.html

 

[flying clutchman]

I fit clutches for a living and in the last couple of years I've come accross so many DMF problems (ALL makes) that I always now advise customers to change them with the clutch. Solid flywheel replacement kits are offered by Valeo for lots of vehicles and are often actually cheaper. I should point out that these kits contain a specially produced centre plate with up to 30% more 'give' to absorb vibration. It's not good enough to fit a solid flywheel and clutch from an earlier model!! All the above applies mainly to diesel engines, most of the petrol DMFs (e.g. MONDEO 2.0) seem to be ok.

 

[JTDman]

Mondeo dmf's are famous for letting go , they cause a missfire first due to the sensor on the flywheel.
New clutch and slip then its prob the re map , what power has it been upped to?
To the best of my knowledge there isnt a solid flywheel for the multi although ive seen a solid one for the 16v 1.9 diesel so maybe but that with the clutch is £900 yes the price of another multi.

I changed my flywheel at the same time as the clutch got it for roughly £250 as i could not be botherd doing it all again , my original seemed fine with the play seeming within the specified limits.
Mapping upto about 130-140 brake seems about max on standard clutches.
Techniclutch on ebay sells valeo clutches with uprated springs for better clamping........

 

[grizgut]

Zundapp,

That section regarding the DMF slipping if there is too much torque may well be the problem, I am hoping that having the remap taken off will cause the DMF to stop slipping, as I can only assume that this is what is happening as the clutch taken off the car was OK and a new one replaced it.

 

[pondweed]

I'm going to start a thread only for clutch replacement and mileages... might be useful for something

 

[grizgut]

Remap chap has just called to say that the car is actually perfectly OK!

Nothing is slipping at all even at maximum remap power, he can get it to wheel spin in 3rd ...I have been driving it like a granny since getting it back from the garage, so had not pushed it at all.

What a relief.....still and all, I think she will have to go, it's just not going to be a long term caravan puller (never designed to be either). It's been a good car and will be to many other owners I'm sure. I'm having the remap off as I don't want to sell on with it still there.

Thanks for all the help and advice

 

[bikes-for-me]

Changed my clutch myself and put a how to do it on the forum , save yourself loads of money.
You can check the dmf for wear , it should have a service limit free play , think i might of put it on my thread somewhere but can not remember. Has a rough guide it needs replacing every second clutch change.
My car is on second clutch but was within service limit so did not replace mine and it runs fine , i did replace clutch slave tho has they are a known weak item.