Technical Clutch stuck

[Rew023]

2016 Fiat 500x pop. 1.4L turbo.

Clutch is sticking when I press it in. I can pull it back up, but without pulling it, it stays stuck down. I’ve got it parked for now, but have a thought of either the slave cylinder or the clutch master cylinder: anyone have any experience with either of these or with this issue before? Any help or comments is appreciated.

If the master cylinder is the case, I have no idea how I am going to find it. I have been on every website I know, and even called dealers, no luck. The slave cylinder is available and easy to find.

 

[Mike1alike]

You mean the clutch pedal probably.
Yes, it sounds like master cylinder or slave gone wrong. If it's master, when you press down the pedal (or someone else helps you and presses it) if you watch the fluid reservoir you will see that fluid level goes down a little until you hit the halfway through pressing the pedal then level goes up as you continue to press the pedal down all the way. Or (rarely cases but it happens) there will be fluid leaking under the clutch pedal. If the slave cylinder is bad, normally there should be fluid leaking out of it towards the clutch fork end.
Have you tried searching ePER for the master cylinder part number?

 

[s130]

I had similar on my Croma 2005 and it happened at Dover Docks when going to Europe.

In my case it was a broken clutch diaphragm spring.

Symptoms:

1. Pedal not returning
2. Softer feel to the clutch pedal when depressing, more noticeable on first third of pedal stroke

 

[The Panda Nut]

Panda 4x4 did this to me and the dealer said it was the master cyinder. Apparently the return spring for the pedal resides inside this.... It sounds the same as your issue. It was done under warranty in little more than 30 minutes. A sticking slave cylinder is also possible but I think a little less likely,

 

[Mike1alike]

I had similar on my Croma 2005 and it happened at Dover Docks when going to Europe.
In my case it was a broken clutch diaphragm spring.
Symptoms:
1. Pedal not returning
2. Softer feel to the clutch pedal when depressing, more noticeable on first third of pedal stroke

That's correct.
If that is the case you can see in the position of clutch fork, it won't be sitting in it's resting point towards slave cylinder and the slave cylinder piston would not sit pushed all the way inside cylinder.

 

[s130]

That's correct.
If that is the case you can see in the position of clutch fork, it won't be sitting in it's resting point towards slave cylinder and the slave cylinder piston would not sit pushed all the way inside cylinder.

Sadly the 500X, like most more modern cars with dual mass flywheels, has a concentric slave cylinder in the flywheel housing so can not be readily inspected. Good observation point for old models with external slave cylinders.

I'm hoping to the OP's sake it is something easier and cheaper to fix.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Sadly the 500X, like most more modern cars with dual mass flywheels, has a concentric slave cylinder in the flywheel housing so can not be readily inspected. Good observation point for old models with external slave cylinders.

I'm hoping to the OP's sake it is something easier and cheaper to fix.

Sadly indeed. What a crazy idea concentric clutch slave cylinders are. It was one of the many factors which influenced me staying with/buying another VAG product. All the ones I've had previously have had an externally mounted cylinder and I was very pleased to find the Scala is no exception. My version also has a solid flywheel - Happy days!

Edit. You do need to watch out though because some versions list a DM flywheel but I can't tell you which versions they are. I believe all the autobox versions are DM? Bearing in mind these are not epicyclic gearboxes.

 

[s130]

What I find really odd with the concentric slaves is that the ones I have seen have no bleed nipple. You have to partly open the connecting pipe to slave pipe connector/union. From there there is another 6 or so inches of pipe to the slave itself. So how does the slave piston chamber get bled?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

What I find really odd with the concentric slaves is that the ones I have seen have no bleed nipple. You have to partly open the connecting pipe to slave pipe connector/union. From there there is another 6 or so inches of pipe to the slave itself. So how does the slave piston chamber get bled?

Concentric slave cylinders were quite unusual when I was on the tools and I've actually never had to do one that didn't have a bleed nipple. I'm told that you have to prefill the unit by holding it's supply pipe below the surface of a container with brake fluid in it and manually compressing and releasing the moving part of the device until next to no bubbles come out. That fills the slave with fluid and you new place a bung of some sort in the pipe end so fluid doesn't leak out while you install into the bell housing. Once the gearbox is refitted and the hydraulics connected up, you need to fully depress and release the clutch pedal repeatedly until no bubbles appear in the master cylinder reservoir and the pedal has a good feel to it. Apparently this can take many strokes of the pedal to achieve. I don't like the sound of that, another reason why I'll be hoping for an externally mounted slave on any car I own.

I suppose someone thought it was a good idea to do away with release levers etc but they worked quite well and made slave cylinder replacement a relatively simple job which didn't cost the customer too much money. On the other hand, a concentric cylinder failure is going to mean pulling the transmission so most will recommend, and I subscribe to this, that a new clutch be fitted at the same time. Now that's going to cost!

 

[s130]

Well pre-fill would be required when fitting a new slave but once in service one is supposed to change the brake/clutch fluid every 2 or 3 years.

For brakes that is fine but for the clutch the fluid in the slave and metal pipe leading to the slave from the external union is not going to get replaced unless there is some form of natural circulation / exchange of fluid going on over time.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Well pre-fill would be required when fitting a new slave but once in service one is supposed to change the brake/clutch fluid every 2 or 3 years.

For brakes that is fine but for the clutch the fluid in the slave and metal pipe leading to the slave from the external union is not going to get replaced unless there is some form of natural circulation / exchange of fluid going on over time.

Maybe they don't envisage a late generation vehicle lasting long enough for this to be a problem?

 

[Rew023]

I did end up finding some fluid on the clutch master cylinder behind the clutch pedal. Still struggling to find the part anywhere in the States, even across the pond. Apparently I let my mother in law buy a rare version of the 500x. Also have come to find when buying parts for this specific 2016 500x pop model, it is considered a truck in the states. A mess all together. I did the looking into the database to find repair notes for the master cylinder and it seems simple enough. As for bleeding the lines, that’s where my knowledge gets a bit hairy. If I do have to replace the slave, that a whole other ball game considering it’s inside the flywheel housing. Hanging the engine, then dropping the transmission, etc. I guess my concern is if I do replace the master, I still have to get to the slave to bleed? In a predicament to say the least lol.

 

[Rew023]

Funny. The part is not called the master cylinder. It’s called a hydraulic clutch actuator. Found the part. Now, bleeding the lines, I have to have a special piece of equipment.

 

[Rew023]

I’m guessing just a vacuum bleeder.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I’m guessing just a vacuum bleeder.

Nope. That looks to me very much like a pressure bleeder. It uses air pressure - so you'll need a source of compressed air - to force the fluid through. usually runs about 10 to 15 psi which is enough to make a lovely mess if any of the unions or cap on the reservoir leaks! I have a cheap one made by Gunson: https://www.gunson.co.uk/product/G4062/Eezibleed-Kit. I've had variable success with it. If I were buying one again I'd buy a more professional one as I have an air compressor to drive it. It's not too difficult to bleed the clutch system manually, just as you'd bleed brakes, by pumping the pedal.

Edit. Ah, Hmm, I just remembered your slave is a concentric jobbie? and if it has no bleed nipple then bleeding becomes more of a problem. Are you just replacing the master cylinder? If the slave is not being changed then it will still be full of fluid so it's just the master cylinder and pipe which will have air in. You may be able to manually work the master before fitting so as to fill the pipe and reservoir. Then you'll have cylinder and pipe full of fluid and if you're careful fitting it there should be very little air in the pipe (around the connector) Although not on a Fiat, in the past I've done this and then left the connector slightly loose so I could expel trapped air by pumping the pedal and allowing the air/fluid to squirt out through the loose connector then quickly tightening it. A nice big rag round the connector is advised.

 

[Rew023]

Nope. That looks to me very much like a pressure bleeder. It uses air pressure - so you'll need a source of compressed air - to force the fluid through. usually runs about 10 to 15 psi which is enough to make a lovely mess if any of the unions or cap on the reservoir leaks! I have a cheap one made by Gunson: https://www.gunson.co.uk/product/G4062/Eezibleed-Kit. I've had variable success with it. If I were buying one again I'd buy a more professional one as I have an air compressor to drive it. It's not too difficult to bleed the clutch system manually, just as you'd bleed brakes, by pumping the pedal.

Edit. Ah, Hmm, I just remembered your slave is a concentric jobbie? and if it has no bleed nipple then bleeding becomes more of a problem. Are you just replacing the master cylinder? If the slave is not being changed then it will still be full of fluid so it's just the master cylinder and pipe which will have air in. You may be able to manually work the master before fitting so as to fill the pipe and reservoir. Then you'll have cylinder and pipe full of fluid and if you're careful fitting it there should be very little air in the pipe (around the connector) Although not on a Fiat, in the past I've done this and then left the connector slightly loose so I could expel trapped air by pumping the pedal and allowing the air/fluid to squirt out through the loose connector then quickly tightening it. A nice big rag round the connector is advised.

I’ll just be doing the master(apparently not called a master in this case) for starts. Seems to be the master rather than the slave after diagnoses. I Teach welding at a high school in Texas so I’ll be doing the job at my shop and have air drops everywhere. Also makes it nice to have access to a database to pull the repair specs from. I will give this a go. I’m hoping this does the job and I don’t have to mess with the slave cause that’s a whole other ball game. Appreciate it mate.

 

[Rew023]

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I’ll just be doing the master(apparently not called a master in this case) for starts. Seems to be the master rather than the slave after diagnoses. I Teach welding at a high school in Texas so I’ll be doing the job at my shop and have air drops everywhere. Also makes it nice to have access to a database to pull the repair specs from. I will give this a go. I’m hoping this does the job and I don’t have to mess with the slave cause that’s a whole other ball game. Appreciate it mate.

Best of luck to you. Do let us know how it turns out.

Welding? One of my best friends taught welders who were going onto the oil rigs in the north sea. I learned to gas weld as part of my early college learning to be a mechanic and then picked up MMA and MIG/Mag as the years rolled by. Came in very useful when I wanted to earn a bit extra as I ran community education "hobby" welding classes of an evening for my local authority for about 10 years. I got to know my friend because when I, infrequently, got someone on one of my courses who wanted to take things further than just "hobby" welding and go for some certification I would take them along to the college where he taught and introduce them. We became friends and he later moved into a house in the next street to us. We make a good pair what with my automotive knowledge and his welding skills, If we'd been younger I think we could have opened a nice wee garage together. Of course "they" say you should never go into business with a friend, so probably just as well we're now both retired!

 

[Rew023]

Best of luck to you. Do let us know how it turns out.

Welding? One of my best friends taught welders who were going onto the oil rigs in the north sea. I learned to gas weld as part of my early college learning to be a mechanic and then picked up MMA and MIG/Mag as the years rolled by. Came in very useful when I wanted to earn a bit extra as I ran community education "hobby" welding classes of an evening for my local authority for about 10 years. I got to know my friend because when I, infrequently, got someone on one of my courses who wanted to take things further than just "hobby" welding and go for some certification I would take them along to the college where he taught and introduce them. We became friends and he later moved into a house in the next street to us. We make a good pair what with my automotive knowledge and his welding skills, If we'd been younger I think we could have opened a nice wee garage together. Of course "they" say you should never go into business with a friend, so probably just as well we're now both retired!

Latest update. This job is an undertaking lol. Everything up to taking the pedal assembly out is easy enough. Tried to do it without taking the assembly out, but that clip on the cylinder is a $“?!. So took the pedal assembly off finally. To do that, you have to drop the entire steering column to get to the top bolt on the intermediate shaft. After a few hours today I finally managed that. Got the clip out in a minute after getting the whole assembly out. Got the steering put back together and pedals hung and decided to call it a day today. Back at it again tomorrow.