Technical Clutch Problem after change - Does not disengage

[mlfactory]

Hello Community,

i have a very big problem with the clutch.

Initial situation:
- Clutch separated badly but it separated but only on the last milimeters of the pedal way
- Pedal feel soft and spongy

So I swapped the clutch...
I replaced the clutch disc, pressure plate, release bearing and slave cylinder.

After the change, the clutch is now even softer and the clutch no longer separates as soon as the engine is running.

When the engine is off I can shift into all gears with no problem.

Of course I've bled the system several times with 1.5 bar pressure on the brake fluid reservoir.
Only liquid comes out and no air.

I installed the clutch disc with the inscription Gearbox Side on the gearbox side.
In other words, the flat side of the clutch disc faces the engine.

I centered the clutch with a 3d Printed centertool designed for this engine.

What I also find strange is that the old clutch disc wasn't so worn out that it would have explained the problems.

Some pictures:



New clutch - "gearbox side" facing the gearbox.






Old release bearing:



New release bearing:


Yes - the new release bearing snapped / clicked in so it holds on the release lever.

Here two videos:

First Video:
Gear engaged - clutch not actuated.

Second Video:

Gear engaged - clutch engaged.

Looks ok, or?

But the problem still exists although everything looks ok.

When the engine is on I just can't put it into gear - of course I can by force, but if you try to put it in gear normally with the clutch pressed, it sounds like the clutch hasn't been pressed.

The master cylinder in the footwell is dry. Likewise, brake fluid shoots out of the vent from the slave cylinder when pressure is built up via the clutch pedal and the vent valve is opened.

So I'm ruling out the master cylinder.

Here is a video of the slave cylinder. What do you say, does the path covered by the cylinder fit or should the cylinder move out much further?

I hope you can accompany me on the way to solving the problem.

This is my first clutch that I've changed in my life and then immediately such a problem.

Fiat Punto 199 - 2010 - 1.2L Engine - 69Hp.

Have a nice day & thanks for reading,
Michael

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi, that is strange.
Have you filled the gearbox with the correct amount of the correct gearbox oil?

Does reverse gear engage and disengage correctly?

 

[mlfactory]

Hello,

Hi, that is strange.

yes, very very strange.

Have you filled the gearbox with the correct amount of the correct gearbox oil?

Yes of course.

Does reverse gear engage and disengage correctly?

No, if the engine is running i cannot engage any gear, not 1-2-3-4-5 or reverse.
Sound like the clutch is not disengage (krrrrrrrr sound).

I think the clutch disengage but only 5% of 100%.

If i... "hammer the gear in" the car will move although the clutch is pressed to the floor.

I dont know what i should do now.
Sure, gearbox out and looking but for what should i looking?

I also checked the release lever before i put the bearing on - looked not bent or brocken.

Only a little wear could be seen at the point where the release lever presses on the release bearing.

Regards, Michael

 

[jackwhoo]

Strangely in your video gear engaged clutch pedal pressed- the clutch friction plate appears to turn freely when you turn drive shaft.
The photos of your work look fine.
Luk are a very good manufacturer.

When you press clutch pedal does the slave cylinder push rod move as soon as pedal moves ?

 

[jackwhoo]

The only thing you haven't replaced is the master cylinder.
For me 1.5bar on pressure blender is too much-I have found with experience lower pressure is often more effective. Under 1 bar.

 

[mlfactory]

When you press clutch pedal does the slave cylinder push rod move as soon as pedal moves ?

I will chech that tomorrow.
From the beginn - all was very strange on this car.

But I think there is no way around dismantling the gearbox again.

Something must be wrong.
Anyone here that can check on a working clutch if the travel of the slave cylinder is ok?
Or is the travel to less?

Regards, Michael

EDIT:

For me 1.5bar on pressure blender is too much-I have found with experience lower pressure is often more effective. Under 1 bar.

Can the master cylinder "leaking" inside
so you can't see it from the outside?

And sorry for my bad english.


I also "backward bleeded".
So i pressed the brake fluid in the bleeding valve on the slave cylinder through the master cylinder and up to the breaking fluid reservar.

But that change nothing.
The Pedal feeling is very strange - very soft so i can press it with one finger complete to the floor.
But pedal stuck not on the bottom.

 

[jackwhoo]

If you remove gearbox again check the friction plate slides freely on the spines of the gearbox input shaft.

Good luck and please let us know outcome.

Good luck

 

[mlfactory]

Ok i will check that.
I think i will tomorrow remove the gearbox.

Is there a "pilot bearing" on this engine?
Can this "stuck"?

Regards, Michael

 

[jackwhoo]

Pilot bearing is in centre of flywheel .
The gearbox input shaft fits into pilot bearing when gearbox fitted to engine.
From pictures gearbox input shaft looks ok where it goes into pilot bearing.

 

[mlfactory]

Ok i will check the pilot bearing also if the gearbox removed.

Is this a real bearing or just a "brass/copper bushing"?
Ah, i will see tomorrow

please let us know outcome.

Sure





EDIT:

This is from a "manual" from LUK.

In english point 2:
Headline: Clutch does not disengage
Contact pressure is no longer reduced. Pressure plate no longer moves
out of. Clutch disc will not
free! pilot bearing seized.

Hmm, i will (i hope) tomorrow what the problem is.

 

[mlfactory]

I... found the problem:



Gearbox Input Shaft not matched i think...

Regards, Michael

 

[jackwhoo]

Oh no!
Thanks for letting us know .

It is good idea to slide just the friction plate onto input shaft spines to check fit before rest of job.

When fitting gearbox to engine always ensure input shaft is going through friction plate correctly. The gearbox should slide up tight to the engine by hand before tightening retaining bolts.


Very best wishes

Jack

 

[jackwhoo]

check the gearbox input shaft and input shaft bearing for damage . A lot of force would have been applied to the input shaft to damage the clutch plate as photos

 

[mlfactory]

First thing what i checked - looks fine and the old clutch slides perfectly on the gearbox input shaft so there is no damage

 

[mlfactory]

Hello

everything went well this time.
But it was not easy alone and without a transmission jack or motor crane.
I should buy such a thing....

But....
The real problem persists.

The Padel is VERY VERY soft.
I know - this is not normal -i have to other cars with hydraulics clutch system for comparison.

Pedal is very soft, no real pressure point and the clutch separates only on the last milimeters.

If the clutch is pressed and you let the clutch come then the frictional connection is immediately available if you let the clutch come even a millimeter.

You know what i mean?

I checked the master cylinder - which is optically not leaking from the outside.

Slave cylinder is new.

I then checked all the lines and found this:

Looked completely dry but as soon as you moved the hose there was a leak.

Because the hose was completely dry without moving outwards, I don't think that much air can/could get into the system.

Can you tell me the part number?
It is 55204248?
I cannot found this part in online shops -.-

Regards & Thanks, Michael