Technical Clutch change

[bikes-for-me]

Well started the clutch change on my 1.9 JTD, boy what a pig of a job so far,did not know what i was letting myself in for.Most of the nut and bolts have been a right pig,if not rusted or seized.
The battery tray was a right joke,and the starter motor back bolt,boy the cuts on my hands.The engine/gearbox back mount, can not even undo that,the whole rubber mount just turns and can not find a way to stop it.
Waiting for a 36mm socket now to undo hub nut,and i think i might have to drop the subframe.
JTD Man you must be a god,i am starting to think i might not beable to finish it.Should the gearbox just drop off once the bellhousing bolts are undone,or does it need force.

 

[JTDman]

No gods here mate just skint buddies who do what they must, rear engine mount} i take it your taking the weight off the mount? if so maybe let the mount take the strain until you crack the nut (big middle one) or undo the outer ones and drop the whole mount.
Hub nut dont need to , just undo the 6 allen bolts on the drive shaft and split it there then swing the outer bit to one side and pull the shaft out. (ill try and find a piccy to demo).
Battery tray yes a pig as well as the starter motor upper rear nut , ratchet spanners with a swivel head a real godsend when it comes to this but first time i used a very small ratchet.
Remember NOT to replace the pig of a nut under the batt tray when your done makes it easier in future.
Chin up mate once you have done it and it feels great to drive youll be a happy man safe in the knowledge you saved loadsa money!

 

[JTDman]

Righty ho image shows what i undid , i left the rest of it intact

 

[JTDman]

Just let me know if there is out i can help with , im not a mechanic but ill try my bestest.

 

[bikes-for-me]

Just let me know if there is out i can help with , im not a mechanic but ill try my bestest.

Cheers dude,i need it.
So far took battery and tray off,front section of exhaust,(had to cut off one bolt from tray and exhaust), clutch slave,gear cables,(took the whole bracket off),n/s arch trim,undone 6 bolts on n/s drive shaft,(can not move it out of way much,so think need to undo hub nut to take it off),air filter,undone gearbox front mount,gearbox rear mount tried undo centre nut but very tight and rubber mount moving.Undone the 2 bracket mounts,but the rubber mount seems to go through subframe i think.Can not get on other end of it,power steering runs on top ,plus subframe.
Starter motor off,not sure if to leave back bolt off when it goes back on.Undone all bellhousing nuts i can see,gearbox got jack under it,but gearbox not moving at all.Planing on undoing hub nut to take drive shaft off,and removing subframe and trying to move gearbox again.
Did you need to use force to take box off,or did it just drop off.Not too sure about putting clutch in,brought a clutch tool from machine mart ,says it does 90% of cars but does not say how to use it.
Dont wont to put it all back and clutch dont work,but it would be nice to get gearbox off first.Shall have another go end of week,so all tips most welcome.

 

[JTDman]

Have you undone the ball joint for the wishbone?
Once that is undone you should be able to manipulate the whole disk/hub shocky out of the way (full left lock steering) i did undo the droplink on the nearside but dont know if it was needed really, the box should move quite easy really ill try and check out just how many bolts there is so you know if you have done them all.
I didnt lower the subframe but can see why some do , i would not attempt to move the box out without someone elses help from above as i know i was pinned by the chest under the car at one point tryin to wriggle it out(the box!) at one point.
The whole wishbone off would prob make it easier and its only 4 bolts and a ball joint but make sure you dont damage the rubber gaitor on the joint (i did).
If you were closer id come round and help.

 

[JTDman]

The worst thing is it only takes 5 mins to change the clutch once the box is out then its all back in again .
It may be poss to not totally remove the box and change it i needed the dmf doin so it had to come off.

 

[bikes-for-me]

Cheers for that JTD Man,think i will try taking wishbone off instead of subframe. Trying to drop rear mount is the problem,with the rubber bush turning.
Going to crack on with it thursday if weather ok,how do you line clutch up when it goes back.Like i said brought a uni clutch kit to line clutch up,but does not say how to use it.
Will have to drop gearbox on own,balance it on trolly jack but working on grass so will be fun.Any ideas what the gearbox weighs.
I had to sell my motorbike to buy a car while working on multipla,got a alfa 156 2.0 twin spark sportswagon.That needs work doing too,so getting some good practice in.

 

[JTDman]

You know how to pick them dont ya! Belts are an absolute must on the alfa twinspark engine either every 36k or 3 years as well known for the cambelt tensioners going pop random like .
I know a bit about the twinsparks if you need out ive had a couple.

The box aint all that heavy really about 3-4 stone at a wild guess (i aint good at guessin weights ) but its really awkward i wouldnt attempt it mate , it will take 10 mins once everything is off.
\i used a couple of large straps an had a mate take the weight from above while i was under it manouvering it out ( crane would do) if id done it on my own id of been stuck under it.

 

[bikes-for-me]

You know how to pick them dont ya! Belts are an absolute must on the alfa twinspark engine either every 36k or 3 years as well known for the cambelt tensioners going pop random like .
I know a bit about the twinsparks if you need out ive had a couple.

The box aint all that heavy really about 3-4 stone at a wild guess (i aint good at guessin weights ) but its really awkward i wouldnt attempt it mate , it will take 10 mins once everything is off.
\i used a couple of large straps an had a mate take the weight from above while i was under it manouvering it out ( crane would do) if id done it on my own id of been stuck under it.

Cheers,i will post how i get on tomorrow.Any tips on lining clutch up.
Did you rate the twinspark,mine is the 2lt , i no the engines burn oil ,but mine burnt 2lts on a 344mile run last week.Did you change your cam belt on the twinspark,and if so was it easy.Got another year before that needs going.Multipla family car,alfa fun car.

 

[JTDman]

Im not really great to advise on the clutch linning up , i used a socket on an extension pushed through the centre and just started to tighten the bolts till it looked central but wished id bought the tool , my brother is a mech but hates doing mech stuff these days so never helped but said he has never used the tool in the past.
The twinny engine is great but known for burning oil but normally about 1000 mile per litre , some do burn a lot more for no real reason.
The thing with them is the 2 litre has a balance belts and if not changed with the cambelt it can be a problem as its inside the same cam cover so if it goes it normally takes the cambelt with it.
But they are a great engine much the same as the Jtd but it needs its services as often as poss.
Alfa156.net is supposed to be good, you need to be aware that if the belt goes and the engine is repaired top end only as in head an valves the bottom end starts knocking about 4 months after due to the crank taking a hit when the belt goes.
I never had the 2ltr i had a 1.8 which doesnt have a balance belt making it easier. Same as the multi though, belt fixed idler tensioner water pump and then the balance belt and idlers its the idlers that seem to kill these engines but if your searching ebay for bits in advance gates belts are the best for them. Some 156's have an appitite for lamnda sensors 4 in 1 year one guy i know where as others last for years.
Running rough is usually an air leak on the intake dirty relays because of thier position and the water temp sensor can cause poor fuel economy and slightly sluggish performance but they are happiest bouncing off the rev limiter .
I could go on all day i really miss my alfa it was about 1 of 4 in the country just couldnt afford 2 cars and family required bigger.

 

[bikes-for-me]

Cheers JTDMan, you sure know your stuff.I can not really afford 2 cars ,lost my job just before xmas.No jobs local and we need a car for family so sold bike to get the alfa why fiat off the road.Love my bikes so it was hard to see her go,but once fiat back on road can look further for job now have a car for transport.
Well had a little play with multipla this afternoon,took the o/s wishbone off and the gearbox front mount,and managed to get the rear mount off too. Put a block of wood across the engine bay and some rope around it and gearbox. Everything seems ready to drop gearbox,but looking at it i think i need to remove the n/s drive shaft too.Undone the 6 bolts on it,do i need to drop that wishbone too.Its different to the o/s drive shaft, and there seems to be a bracket further along it.

 

[JTDman]

You talkin about the drivers side shaft? then yes, undo the 6 bolts swing the shaft over like on the pass side (i know its tight that side i may have jacked the engine up to do this) then the stubby bit thats left in the box i just undid the bearing retainer that goes around the shaft on the drivers side then tapped on the flange (oh err) where id just removed the allen bolts from .
So you knocking from under the car towards the drivers wheel , it should split the shaft out of the drivers side and also pop the bearing (still on the shaft) out so the shaft can be removed.

Hope that makes sense , when im typing sometimes i think ive typed certain words and then re read it then it will make no sense at all even to me .
I think i may have dropped the wishbone ball joint on the drivers side as well for the room to take the shaft out but just left the bolts in loose.

 

[JTDman]

Cheers JTDMan, you sure know your stuff.I can not really afford 2 cars ,lost my job just before xmas.No jobs local and we need a car for family so sold bike to get the alfa why fiat off the road.Love my bikes so it was hard to see her go,but once fiat back on road can look further for job now have a car for transport.
Well had a little play with multipla this afternoon,took the o/s wishbone off and the gearbox front mount,and managed to get the rear mount off too. Put a block of wood across the engine bay and some rope around it and gearbox. Everything seems ready to drop gearbox,but looking at it i think i need to remove the n/s drive shaft too.Undone the 6 bolts on it,do i need to drop that wishbone too.Its different to the o/s drive shaft, and there seems to be a bracket further along it.

are you talking about the wishbones the wrong way round here?

i totally removed the passenger side and just split the joint and made loose the bolts on the drivers side.

 

[bikes-for-me]

are you talking about the wishbones the wrong way round here?

i totally removed the passenger side and just split the joint and made loose the bolts on the drivers side.

You got it,messed up.I have taken the passenger side off,its the drivers side that is the problem.I can take the drivers wishbone off too so i can swing the driveshaft out the way.But there is a long shaft the other side going to gearbox.Do you undo the clamp holding the rubber seal on the shaft,then nock it away out of gearbox towards drivers side.

 

[JTDman]

The bracket that goes around the drivers drive shaft holds a bearing its this that im talking about, from memory i think there is 3 8mm nuts and bolts securing the bearing in its holder (the big bracket) that goes along the back of the engine sump height.
When the outer part of the shaft is swung away its then that you tap it out of the box hitting from middle of engine towards drivers hub.
Hope that makes more sense.
The bearing will remain on the shaft , the whole inner shaft should just pop out leaving the large bracket in place.

 

[bikes-for-me]

Got gearbox out,bearing all broken up and clutch plate worn and lots of scratchers on it.
Had to drop subframe in end,so much easy when you drop it.:bang: Problem now is that i can rock the middle of my flywheel,i have the manual disc but can not find what the free play is.
Should there be play on a dual mass flywheel,and how much.No more money to buy flywheel,but dont wont to put clutch back in if its just going to damage it.

 

[bikes-for-me]

Well put the clutch in , a local mechanic said put one of the clutch bolts in and there should be no more then 8mm play either side.
Was going to change the main shaft seal,is it the one on the gearbox with a cover holding it by two 10mm bolts.
Took the cover off,a lot of sealant behind it ,any
tips how to get the seal out JTDMAN.The one in seems to have a metal outer and inner ring ,where the one i have to put back in has just a metal outer.Hope i have the right one,looks the same size but dont wont to replace if wrong.
While car is jacked up,i noticed a lot of rust patchers lifting the underseal off in places.So i gave the underside a good jet wash,so i can prime and underseal when dry.
Just got to work out where all the bolts go back now,and get the front exhaust bracket welded on as it had come off.

 

[JTDman]

:slayer:

:slayer::slayer::slayer::slayer::slayer:

Well done that man!
Feels good dunnit

the shaft seal is a bit strange the way it goes in , no tips really i used black sealant instant gasket type to seal around the outside and the holder when it was re fitted.
Its prob ok the one you have as long as its the same size just make sure you dont damage it i think i used a socket the same size to tap it in, just be carefull with the 2 bolts that hold it in as one of mine was part stripped.

You know its the law that you have to paint the gearbox a funky colour while its out its my proof that its been out and had work if i ever sell it on.

 

[bikes-for-me]

How did you get the main seal out,just rip it out with a screwdriver.
Already painted gearbox,it was a mucky oily back colour,now it is a jet washed nice silver colour.
Lets just hope it goes back together easy.