Technical Climate controls problem

[ClassicFiat500]

I have a 2014 Abarth Anniverario, basically a Fiat 500,. The reason for posting my question on this forum is- there are many more readers & more likely to get a response than on the Abarth forum.
My question is since owning the car for only 6 months ( purchased from an Abarth dealership), I have had the gas in my climate control topped up twice in 6 months, then a couple of weeks ago I noticed a strange whistling noise emiting from the heater inside the car (not under the bonnet) then for no reason the climate control stopped giving out cold air, the light (showing the air con is working) is on and the heat is working but no cold air just a slight difference in noise when the air con button is pressed. The car has only done 24k & is still under an extended Fiat warranty, however when I spoke to Fiat they said it is most likely to be the air con condenser has been hit by a stone & gas has been lost, I have checked as much as I can and the rad looks as new. The car is booked in 17th July to Fiat for an inspection, but from my past experience garages try to wriggle out of paying for claims if they can (sorry its my sinister way of thinking).Has anyone ever had a whistle from their air con INSIDE THE CABIN,it almost sounds like gas escaping from a balloon? The noise has now stopped but no cold air. Do any pipes go into the car with air con gas in them. All help and advise would be appreciated.

 

[John202020]

It is possible that the evaporator has failed but really quite unlikely the garages suspicion would be my guess too they should have put a dye in the gas when filling, in a dark place you can see any leaks with a UV light, if it really is the evaporator then the drain tube would glow, its not unheard of for the condenser to fail.
Once fixed I seriously recommend leaving the AC ALWAYS ON , this keeps everything nice and dry up front and less likely to corroded and its required for the climate control to work as expected.

 

[ClassicFiat500]

It is possible that the evaporator has failed but really quite unlikely the garages suspicion would be my guess too they should have put a dye in the gas when filling, in a dark place you can see any leaks with a UV light, if it really is the evaporator then the drain tube would glow, its not unheard of for the condenser to fail.
Once fixed I seriously recommend leaving the AC ALWAYS ON , this keeps everything nice and dry up front and less likely to corroded and its required for the climate control to work as expected.

Hi John thanks for your prompt reply. Have you ever heard of the gas leaking into the cabin from the heater unit? I still find it difficult to identify the strange whistle noise stopped when the cold air stopped coming through. As I said when I now switch the air con on from heat to cold the sound changes as if the air con is working. (Heat works no cold air)

 

[puntodeltathema]

Do you get a click from the engine bay when you press the button? That would suggest there's enough pressure left in the system for it to work.

What you sometimes hear inside the car when gas is low-ish is a periodic "hiss" growing in volume then stopping, then repeating. This is the expansion valve. A distinct one-off whistle would though suggest a leak from pipework or components inside the car.

I guess ultimately you need to trust the dealer (I know...) - though if you're prepared to forego the warranty you might find a proper AC specialist more helpful.

Really they (if it was the same dealership) shouldn't have topped it up the second time without identifying what the issue was. Illegal under AC regs to fill a known leaking system...

Nick

 

[ClassicFiat500]

Hi Nick, Thanks for your advise Will have. A look in the morning if I get a click in the engine bay.

 

[ClassicFiat500]

Hi Nick, Thanks for your advise Will have. A look in the morning if I get a click in the engine bay.

My Air conditioning is now blowing cold, I took the car into Glyn Hopkins hoping they would correct the air con under my extended warranty NO! I left the car with them for the morning & when I collected it they presented me with a bill for £168 for doing a health check on the car. Did they do the job I asked ? NO ! “Sorry your AIR CON is not under our warranty”. 40 miles & 3 weeks prior to letting them have my car I took it to my non Fiat garage for an M.O.T it passed with no problems also a report on brakes & pads which were fine, however Glyn Hopkins in Milton Keynes said I need new disks, new pads, a new air con condenser, new timing tensioners all this they wanted £3000 The brakes they said needed immediate attention, they had the service history with the car that clearly shows everything is up to date & in good order. Not surprising I told them to get lost. I then took the car to G.P Auto’s in Milton Keynes they re-gassed the air con & also added a leak stop fluid as they said the gas leak was just a tiny pin prick of a hole it should do the job with no problem. Total Bill £128.00Yes £128.00 it is now blowing ice cold air, so the moral is BE VERY CAREFUL what MAIN DEALERS TELL YOU! 2 weeks later & still blowing nice cold air

 

[AndyRKett]

When the gas is running low, but not completely out, then it is very common to get a whistling noise from behind the dash, that is basically the aircon gas passing through the expansion valve at low pressure. Once the gas pressure drops so far the system won’t work at all and the noise will stop.

I’m not sure how old the car is, but if there is some material defect then the aircon could be under warranty but to be honest more often than not it is something like a stone having made a tiny hole in the condenser and the gas has leaked out

 

[ClassicFiat500]

My Air conditioning is now blowing cold, I took the car into Glyn Hopkins hoping they would correct the air con under my extended warranty NO! I left the car with them for the morning & when I collected it they presented me with a bill for £168 for doing a health check on the car. Did they do the job I asked ? NO ! “Sorry your AIR CON is not under our warranty”. 40 miles & 3 weeks prior to letting them have my car I took it to my non Fiat garage for an M.O.T it passed with no problems also a report on brakes & pads which were fine, however Glyn Hopkins in Milton Keynes said I need new disks, new pads, a new air con condenser, new timing tensioners all this they wanted £3000 The brakes they said needed immediate attention, they had the service history with the car that clearly shows everything is up to date & in good order. Not surprising I told them to get lost. I then took the car to G.P Auto’s in Milton Keynes they re-gassed the air con & also added a leak stop fluid as they said the gas leak was just a tiny pin prick of a hole it should do the job with no problem. Total Bill £128.00Yes £128.00 it is now blowing ice cold air, so the moral is BE VERY CAREFUL what MAIN DEALERS TELL YOU! 2 weeks later & still blowing nice cold air

Little bit of an update of my bad experience from Glyn Hopkins Milton Keynes, They are no longer listed on Fiat lis of registered dealers in MILTON KEYNES, only for assistance, although they are still servicing them. My review is only applicable to Glyn Hopkins Fiat in Milton Keynes none of there other branches.
Slight but important info- According to Fiat Dealer List Glyn Hopkins are not on their list of dealers in Milton Keynes, the nearest Dealer is Motor-Vogue in Bedford

 

[jrkitching]

I then took the car to G.P Auto’s in Milton Keynes they re-gassed the air con & also added a leak stop fluid as they said the gas leak was just a tiny pin prick of a hole it should do the job with no problem.

I'm not a fan of these types of product. Some sealant additives can cause more problems that they solve, and can complicate matters if any further work is needed on the A/C system.

Good practice would have been to replace the condenser & dryer. The condenser is a known weakness on the 500 in the UK climate (look through the grille on any example >3yrs old and the number of missing fins might surprise you). Aftermarket replacement condensers aren't expensive, and they're easily changed once the system is degassed.

 

[ClassicFiat500]

I'm not a fan of these types of product. Some sealant additives can cause more problems that they solve, and can complicate matters is any further work is needed on the A/C system.

Good practice would have been to replace the condenser & dryer. The condenser is a known weakness on the 500 in the UK climate (look through the grille on any example >3yrs old and the number of missing fins might surprise you). Aftermarket replacement condensers aren't expensive, and they're easily changed once the system is degassed.

I tend to agree with you but at the extortionate cost they quoted way over £1000 it will be interesting how long the sealant lasts for the sake of £30 + re gas I could replace 10 new condensers for that price bearing in mind they are a known problem. I very rarely use the car 900 miles since November last year, but love it when I do.

 

[jrkitching]

at the extortionate cost they quoted way over £1000

Couldn't agree more about the Glyn Hopkins quote being extortionate.

 

[varesecrazy]

I tend to agree with you but at the extortionate cost they quoted way over £1000 it will be interesting how long the sealant lasts for the sake of £30 + re gas I could replace 10 new condensers for that price bearing in mind they are a known problem. I very rarely use the car 900 miles since November last year, but love it when I do.

Aircon systems like to BE RUN

it circulates the active ingredients.. helping keep it 'leak tight'

We have an 'occasional use ' car.. I try and run the aircon every time it sees action


It has held pressure ( function)far better than previous years when I didnt use it for months

 

[jrkitching]

Aircon systems like to BE RUN

I'd agree.

In this case, the OP talks about a pinhole leak in the condenser. That's most likely down to corrosion, and no amount of regular use of the A/C can protect against that.

The A/C condenser is the first thing the incoming air passes over after coming through the front grille, so bears the brunt of any rain (+ salt in winter) that happens to be present. If driving on roads that have been recently salted, rinsing the condenser off with a hose when you wash the car might be a sensible precaution; it's easily accessible through the grille.

The ready availability of low cost aftermarket condensers is an indication of how common this problem is (although quite a few are also needed to repair accident damage; it's pretty much the first thing that's going to break in a frontal collision).

 

[John202020]

Aircon systems like to BE RUN

it circulates the active ingredients.. helping keep it 'leak tight'

We have an 'occasional use ' car.. I try and run the aircon every time it sees action


It has held pressure ( function)far better than previous years when I didnt use it for months

I've always said leave it always on, the Mazda is 16 years old and it still works ok bar the 30% of the condenser fins missing and re gas it every 2-3 years regardless if its working just had ours done only had 43% left in

 

[ClassicFiat500]

As the condenser is obviously at the front & proned to stone damage has anyone come up with the idea of making the front grille any tighter without restricting the flow of air? Maybe some sort of air scoop. I dont know if a fine mesh would be better than the existing honeycomb plastic grille (see photo) thats there now which is obviously proned to stone chips on the condenser as the mesh is too open, perhaps fitted between the condenser & the grille. This would alleviate stone damage hopefully without air restriction. Not sure how easy it would be to fit without removing the front end for fitting access. From the photo’s you can see the slight damage on the condenser where stones have gone between the honeycomb. 1st & 2nd pictures the standard grille design on 2015 Anniversario
All comments welcome. Barry

 

[jrkitching]

Yours is in better condition than many that I've seen, even some brand new ones have more fin damage.

And you're right; it only takes one badly placed stone to punch a hole in something vital.

 

[ClassicFiat500]

Found this on Amazon looks perfect, may even spray it red & fit between the grill & the condenser as my car is an Anniversario model satin pearl white with red trimmings as standard.

 

[AndyRKett]

Couldn't agree more about the Glyn Hopkins quote being extortionate.

The only thing surprising about that quote is that the OP expected anything less taking their car to the main dealer.

First there is the dealer's premium on parts + the OE parts costing usually twice what you'd pay anywhere sane.

Then there is the labor costs at a dealer which will get broken down by job rather than how long it actually takes so if changing the condenser is rated to take 2 hours they'll charge 2 hours labor even if it can be done in 15 mins.

Then if it takes "2 hours" to do the condenser and "1hr" to recharge the gas they will be charging for 3 hours at probably north of £100 an hour, even if the whole job takes an hour or less. These are just examples there is probably another hour for gassing down the system, another hour for "diagnostic" and another diagnostic charge to plug it into examiner and see if any fault codes need clearing.

 

[AndyRKett]

Found this on Amazon looks perfect, may even spray it red & fit between the grill & the condenser as my car is an Anniversario model satin pearl white with red trimmings as standard.View attachment 427551

There is nothing to stop you physically fitting mesh just remember that your insurance company might decide its a "modification" and up your insurance premiums if you do tell them or cancel your policy if you don't tell them and get found out.

The easiest way to stop stone damage is to slow down and keep back from cars in front. cant get a stone flicked through the grill if you're not close enough to pick up stones from the tires of the car in front and not going so fast the stone can cause damage.

 

[ClassicFiat500]

There is nothing to stop you physically fitting mesh just remember that your insurance company might decide its a "modification" and up your insurance premiums if you do tell them or cancel your policy if you don't tell them and get found out.

The easiest way to stop stone damage is to slow down and keep back from cars in front. cant get a stone flicked through the grill if you're not close enough to pick up stones from the tires of the car in front and not going so fast the stone can cause damage.

Very valid point & agree with you re the insurance company, the slightest excuse to invalidate a claim is always there with them. Regarding slowing down, In the past I probably have been one of those mad crazy annoying drivers that has to pass everything on the road, but as I am not far away from 80 I religiously keep my distance but more importantly keep within the speed limits. I have the feeling the condenser was damaged when I bought the car with a very slight pin hole leak that took time to run out.