Technical Cinq Strange Rear Brake Problem

[Cinqster355]

I have a strange rear brake problem on my Cinq Sporting. I am wondering if anyone can shed any light on the problem?

Before I start I have read the Haynes manual and as far as I am concerned there is nothing wrong but obviously there is.

The Symptom
When you apply the brake the off side rear does not operate. They are adjusted correctly as I have a slight rub on rotation. Upon pressing the brake the wheel actually frees it self!

Things I have tried:
Stripped down the brake and checked the shoe lining thickness (as new)
Measured the wear in the drum which is ok
Bled all the brakes
Loosened the handbrake to ensure this is not a problem
The rear wheel cylinder looks as new and is not leaking.
The servo is working as tested in accordance with manual.
I have taken the drum off and got someone to press the brake to see if it is working ok and is returning back under its own devices which it is.

Does anyone have any idea what it would be?

I did just change the wheel bearing and stripped down this brake to lubricate the handbrake pivot.

I have checked the pivot points and they do operate correctly but again they do not hold the handbrake/wheel at all on the off side. The near side is perfect.

Any suggestions will gladly be received.

Cinqster355.

 

[rallycinq]

It does sound as though you have assembled it incorrectly, I can't see any other reason for this type of failure.

Cheers

D

 

[fingers99]

I think it has to be an assembly issue. The handbrake and hydraulic rearbrake are seperate systems apart from mechanically, so it'll be some issue with springs, pivots, location, etc.

 

[Cinqster355]

Cheers

The only part I think it could be is the hand brake adjuster. Is it possible to put this the wrong way round? My gut feeling is I have put it together wrongly also but I just cant see where.

Looking at the Haynes manual each shoe is fitted correctly with them locating at 3 points, 1 the lower point 2 the friction adjuster and 3 onto the wheel cylinder.

When I press the brake without the drum it does expand and contract.

I will strip it down and rebuild again. Does anyone have a picture I can use for reference?

Cinqster355

 

[Cinqster355]

I have just had another look at the car to see if it was the adjuster in the wrong way. It is in ok. I took a picture before I dissassemble on the rear and it is in the same orientation as before.

I have included a picture. I will strip later and take a picture and upload this for you if I cant sort out.

Cinqster355

 

[Cinqster355]

Ok

I have taken some actual pictures of the positions the brakes are at the moment. If you can pick up something I am missing I would be greatful.

Cinqster355

 

[fingers99]

Difficult to see. I wonder, are the springs the right way round? (Compare with working side.)

Was one drum much easier to replace than the other? Have you adjusted the handbrake?

 

[woj]

Dude,

The mounting springs are upside down, that is, the top spring is mounted on the bottom and the other way round. The stiffer/thicker goes down (bitch to mount), the thinner/less stiff goes on the top (really easy to mount when you've done the lower one ). Clearly you got it wrong and that's exactly why it does not work - the cylinder is too weak to stretch the stiff spring. Also, the bottm spring has an upper and lower side, it has to go in the right way (I think that if you try it the wrong way it does not mount at all, at least that's what my brother claimed just a week ago when we did the rear brakes and he knows his way around things).

/Woj

 

[woj]

Forgot to say: check the other side, even if it works. Also, it is a good idea to renew the springs and mounting clips if you have not done that already.

/Woj

 

[Cinqster355]

Thanks to all you guys. I will check in the morning the other perfectly working side to see if that is in the correct way you describe.

The brakes were poor before so with me taking them off and refitting as I saw I wrongly assumed I had put it back together correctly. In my mind I had but it was wrong when I first removed them.

Once I have checked I will update you all.

Many many thanks for this. When you are getting mad because you have tried everything you can think of the red mist starts to decend.

Again thanks.

Cinqster355

 

[randomizered]

I have a thread on here where i had probs getting the springs on and ended up making a tool.

I'll dig it up in a moment, but in the mean time, eat your Weatabix as you will find the springs a lot harder to fit the correct way around Its a PITA, but they def need to be on the other way around. Check my photos etc

Kristian

 

[randomizered]

Here ya go, I had a different issue to you, but it has lots of nice pics and suggestions and ideas

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinq-sei-...nt-get-my-drums-after-new-shoes.html?p=917461

Enjoy

Kristian

 

[Cinqster355]

Update

Thanks to all of you especially WOJ. You hit the nail right on the head. I swapped over the springs and hey presto I have brakes that actually work correctly and also the hand brake is now good as well.

The springs were on the wrong way since I have had the car. The brakes have always been rubbish. Finally got time to spend on the Cinq over the Christmas break and thanks to you all it now stops as it should do.

Many many thanks. Just shows what a little experience can do.

Cinqster355.

 

[Cinqster355]

KRITIP

Thanks for your help. Got it sorted but searched the forum before I posted as it usually has cropped up before. Must admit did not read this particular thread.

Cheers

Cinqster355.

 

[randomizered]

No probs, just glad you have working brakes now

hopefully if someone searches again, they will come across one or the other threads

Kristian

 

[woj]

Glad to be of assistance, the first job on the rear brakes is always the worst one - you would not believe what I did (or was trying to do) on my first go - in short , putting the shoes left on the right side and vice versa and hitting them with the hammer for almost 2 hours wondering why wouldn't they just slide in . Makes people laugh till this day .

In your case, I just hope the springs were not assembled wrongly by a garage.

/Woj