Car of the World Oh dear

[DaveMcT]

See here
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/26042011/36/nissan-leaf-wins-world-car-year-0.html

Where do they think the electricity come from? Its not free and most power plants are so dirty they make more CO2 per mile than a petrol car. Not to mention the CO2 and pollution created making the batteries.

Until we get some techno magic in solar panels or bite the bullet and go nuke these cars will only ever be a side show.

 

[custard]

See here
http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/26042011/36/nissan-leaf-wins-world-car-year-0.html

Where do they think the electricity come from? Its not free and most power plants are so dirty they make more CO2 per mile than a petrol car. Not to mention the CO2 and pollution created making the batteries.

Until we get some techno magic in solar panels or bite the bullet and go nuke these cars will only ever be a side show.

weeeell
for some I can see the practicality of electric cars
99% of my journeys are within the city
so if a car could do 50 miles on a charge with a realistic recharge system then its feasible
perhaps more suited to the likes of car sharing schemes
Edinburgh has a car club,so i guess with investment in infrastructure it would be practical

 

[volxstu]

But now isnt the end result. They are released now to spur the technology on for the future when electricity will be increasingly produced from sustainable sources.

 

[MadMan0]

I can't see my self ever getting an electric car, I like the sound of the internal combustion engine

I have to do motorway journeys daily so an electric car just wouldn't work for me... I fill up my petrol car once every 2 months works out £3,000 ish cheaper than the train - taking All costs into account inc a £700 fee for maintaining the car and £1200 for insurance etc fuel, mot, tax.. etc etc

If i had to give up my car i would have to drop out of uni as i couldn't get there on my budget

Current recharge times of 8 hours are too long for me around town i wouldn't mind an electric car but london's tube is alot quicker than a car anyays so i don't drive into "town"

 

[volxstu]

I fail to see how that makes sense. How could you not go to uni if you didnt have a car when you only use 1/2 a tank of petrol in a month. Surely you could walk it lol.

As a side note i can spend anything up to £500 in a month on petrol.

 

[GeorgeDamper]

A chap at my workplace runs an electric car - he has to put a new battery in every day.

 

[DaveMcT]

Electric cars make (some) sense when they get the infrastructure sorted. But its not only the charging points. What about upgrading the power grid and building more power stations. The only practical option is more nukes but UK govt wont make that decision. All the cold war propaganda has scared everyone to death about anything nuke.

Nissan USA says the Leaf needs 25KWh for a flat to full charge to cover 100 miles. They also need a dedicated 40amp supply (but not clear if that 110 or 220 volts)

Do the maths - if everyone had an electric car the power grid would collapse

 

[claymore]

Actually I'm not angry, I'm glad it's beaten some ungainly german saloons.

Having said that, I rarely take the car these days due to parking pressures. Costs more to have the car stationary that to drive it is how the cooncil thinks best for some reason. I find a bike's better, been back in the saddle for about a year now wish I did sooner. Electric bikes might be fun though, if only to get up the hills. I don't stuggle much anymore but it's really tedious having to take so much time climbing.

 

[ChrisUK]

Not to mention all the nasty nickel mining to make the batteries.

 

[DaveMcT]

And what happens when nickel, lithium, cadmium, etc run out?

I think electric cars are simply greenwash to allow the car makers to put lots of "added value" into their tin boxes. If there was an integrated policy to sort out the infrastructure I might be in favour but there never will be and until then they are just coal fired cars with a very poor energy conversion rate.

Oil from aquatic algae makes much more sense but is anyone putting in any serious money. Not really.
Work is going on but it's frankly peanuts compared to the problems if we don't sort out our energy supply PDQ.

In the meantime we have a few electric cars making Joe Sixpack think his future is going to be fine.

While I think of it. Nuke power plants solve another problem. Fresh water is getting ever more scarce (even in UK & especially in the south east). The otherwise waste heat from the nuke is perfect for driving desalination plant.

 

[HitomiLee]

never mind the fact its bloody ugly!
and its a nissan

therefore to me...its a micra

 

[Doofer]

The only good thing about leccy cars is that the government can't put road fuel tax on them - there's no way to tax the power they use at a different rate to what's used in your house.

This is why the previous govt started talking about road tolls - they claimed it was about congestion, really they were panicking about the end of the road fuel cash cow.

The range is the issue - I'd need a petrol/diesel car aswell, for the long trips, which would make it the opposite of environmental.

Even with charging points all over the country, are you supposed to have an eight-hour coffee break while it charges?

 

[Eklipze3k]

The only good thing about leccy cars is that the government can't put road fuel tax on them - there's no way to tax the power they use at a different rate to what's used in your house.

This is why the previous govt started talking about road tolls - they claimed it was about congestion, really they were panicking about the end of the road fuel cash cow.

The range is the issue - I'd need a petrol/diesel car aswell, for the long trips, which would make it the opposite of environmental.

Even with charging points all over the country, are you supposed to have an eight-hour coffee break while it charges?

At the moment I think these things are aimed squarely at commuters and people who only do short trips (granny going to the shops, school run, etc). To be honest, an electric car would suit my general usage (20 miles a day to/from work mostly through town so only exceeding 40mph for a few seconds) but I'm put off by the fact that they are all butt ugly and expensive. Give me a Sei, Cinq, Uno or 126 with a milk float's engine and I'll be happy

 

[dan-the-man]

how long do these last then before you have to go and buy a new battery? like any rechargeable battery it eventually will not hold charge anymore.

I bet a replacement isn't cheap either.

a petrol/diesel car can last hundreds of thousands of miles and decades before it will be scrapped, I'm still sticking with a proper engine until they come up with something better because a conventional car in the long run is more environmentally friendly than these things.

AND I nearly got run over the other day by a prius because I couldn't hear it.

 

[DaveMcT]

If government really wanted to go green they would be pump priming vege oil from aquatic algae. Its basic technology and need not be costly, but it would immediately scupper all their road and fuel tax policies so its not going to happen.

 

[Soleil]

how long do these last then before you have to go and buy a new battery?.

Nissan put an 8 year warranty on the battery, so after 8 years and 1 day you will have to buy one. and will cost just over £10,000... would guess they will get cheaper tho.

 

[ChrisUK]

I honestly believe the next logical step is hydrogen. That way the car still operates the same way e.g. You run out of fuel you go to a fuel station and put more in.

Electric cars are a gimmic other than very short inner city commutes.

 

[Eklipze3k]

I honestly believe the next logical step is hydrogen. That way the car still operates the same way e.g. You run out of fuel you go to a fuel station and put more in.

Electric cars are a gimmic other than very short inner city commutes.

Fiat think methane is another decent alternative - http://www.airtechnologies.fiat.com/alternative_fuel.html

 

[DaveMcT]

Methane has energy on C-H bonds oxydising hydrogen and oxydising carbon.

Fuel cells use only the energy from oxydising hydrogen. The remainder is thrown away.

Methane is made from natural gas. So why not just fuel the car with gas and be done with it?

Hydrogen is just another energy storage medium. Its made by electrolising water. So its just another car powered by coal and gas.

It only makes sense if we go nuke in a big way. There are many lower cost options that would work fine if we bothered to do some genuine research. Everyone is looking for the magic bullet and there isnt one. Or they are doing an ostrich act and letting the kids worry about it.

 

[P100 GRR]

You should take a look at Robert Llewellyns podcast, Fullycharged. He test drives different electric and hybrid cars.

One of the points he makes in one of them, (can't remember which one) is that although electric vehicles are often touted as zero emissions, this is obviously at point of use. He recognises that the generation of electricity creates co2, but that is very small in comparison to the production of petrol/diesel.

Most people don't realise that to refine the oil into the fuel of your choice creates a large amount of co2 before you even start using it in your car!

Personally I'd love to use an electric vehicle purely on its running costs not environmental impact.

The new Renault Twizy would be ideal to commute to work and back, if you could suffer the funny looks you'd probably get.

http://www.renault-ze.com/en-gb/gamm...ion-60210.html