Technical Can't Brake and Accelerate at same time?

[alfatastic]

My 500 is at the dealers at present, because I got a bit of juddering after coming of the brakes and then turning and accelerating. The dealers diagnostic equipment is down so they can't get to the bottom of it yet, but think the problem is with a sticking brake light which maybe stopping the car accelerating as they are all interconnected. Gone are the days of heeling and toeing then? Does this sound feasable or are they making things up to put me off while the equipment is down?

 

[Ffoxy]

My 500 is at the dealers at present, because I got a bit of juddering after coming of the brakes and then turning and accelerating. The dealers diagnostic equipment is down so they can't get to the bottom of it yet, but think the problem is with a sticking brake light which maybe stopping the car accelerating as they are all interconnected. Gone are the days of heeling and toeing then? Does this sound feasable or are they making things up to put me off while the equipment is down?

Sounds right to me, braking tells ECU to cut engine power.

 

[RobW]

ESP net won't allow this, and to be honest I cannot understand why you want to

on track I trail brake into a corner to keep weight transfer in check and set up inertial drift - then apply power

 

[alfatastic]

I wouldn't use it on my Fiat, but Heeling and Toeing is used along with double declutching on down shifts prior to the corner, saves the syncros and engine (and alot of race cars don't have syncros or have straight cut gears) and sounds fantastic.

order is right foot toe moves from accelerator to brake.
begin braking.
dip clutch with left foot and move gearstick into neutral.
with heal dip accelerator to raise revs, while still braking with toe and releasing clutch with left foot (phew!)
then dip clutch again and slip into lower gear
repeat if another lower gear needed.
release brake and begin turn.
hit apex nail throttle (catch back end with bit of opposite lock if driving 37 year old rwd alfa)

 

[auto_blanco]

Ive tried this in my GPS that has ESP and ive not had a problem result, I like to drive to save my gearbox as I can already faintly hear the synchros spinning up.

I will try it in our 500 later, also with ESP and see what happens!

 

[alfatastic]

The Garage are now saying the problem is due to the brake callipers stick and that it will cost ME £46 to sort out,

I'm not happy and have contacted Fiat Customer services, if modern Fiat brake callipers can't do more than 8,000 miles without malfunctioning, I may have to go back to driving old alfas, my 37 GT Junior does about 1000 miles a year and has no problems whilst my Alfa 155 did over 90000 in 14 years with out sticking

 

[Murano16v]

How can they possibly say this is not a warranty issue?

 

[MikeSalt]

Pads and discs would be your problem, but a caliper is not a consumable item. This is a warranty issue, get them to sort it!

 

[alfatastic]

Well typically Fiat Customer Care where less than useful, here is their response, when I asked about a sticking calliper

"Thank you for contacting the Fiat Information Centre.
Unfortunately, we cannot confirm if the brakes should be covered under warranty as the issue might be due to wear and tear and if so will not be covered under the Warranty.
Please contact our Customer Relations team who can assist you further with this matter.
In order for them to do so as quickly as possible, please provide the following information:
A contact telephone number, Car registration and model.
We will then pass on your details to the customer Relations team who will then contact you directly.
If you require further assistance or need to know the whereabouts of an authorised Fiat dealership please go to www.fiat.co.uk or alternatively give us a call on 00800 3428 0000. Any one of our Customer Service Representatives will be happy to assist with your enquiries. We are here to help Monday to Saturday 9am – 6pm.
Ciao,
Fiat Information Centre"

Very different to My Uncle's tail of customer service on his Toyota corolla, which is now 9 years old, but when it got to 7 years old, went from using no oil between services to using 1/2 a litre every 1000 miles, Toyota asked him to monitor it for three months then replaced the entire engine free of charge, FOUR years after then end of the warranty period

 

[eki]

in relation to the car cutting power, is the car smart enough to realise its rolling? The reason i ask is cause wouldnt that mean you couldnt roll down a hill, neutral, brake slowly and rev the engine a bit?

8000 miles is a joke btw on the brakes. Tried calling another dealer? Seeing their opinion?

 

[RobW]

in relation to the car cutting power, is the car smart enough to realise its rolling? The reason i ask is cause wouldnt that mean you couldnt roll down a hill, neutral, brake slowly and rev the engine a bit?

8000 miles is a joke btw on the brakes. Tried calling another dealer? Seeing their opinion?

you can rev the engine whilst braking, with the clutch depressed, but as i have found - the car will not accellerate and brake at the same time

remember it is a 'fly by wire' throttle, or 'request for power'

and yes the car can tell when it is rolling down a hill, it has an inertial sensor that applies the handbrake if you roll back at a stop
same sensor that applies the hazards under heavy braking

 

[nottsfiat07]

you can rev the engine whilst braking, with the clutch depressed, but as i have found - the car will not accellerate and brake at the same time

remember it is a 'fly by wire' throttle, or 'request for power'

and yes the car can tell when it is rolling down a hill, it has an inertial sensor that applies the handbrake if you roll back at a stop
same sensor that applies the hazards under heavy braking

So is this all models, nothing to do with having the hill holder thing you get with ESP? If so, my driveway slopes, I must give it a go! Hope it stops before it rolls into my neighbours house like my Stilo did!

 

[RobW]

So is this all models, nothing to do with having the hill holder thing you get with ESP? If so, my driveway slopes, I must give it a go! Hope it stops before it rolls into my neighbours house like my Stilo did!

yes i am talking about cars with esp

 

[nottsfiat07]

yes i am talking about cars with esp

glad I waited for your reply then!

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

you can rev the engine whilst braking, with the clutch depressed, but as i have found - the car will not accellerate and brake at the same time

remember it is a 'fly by wire' throttle, or 'request for power'

and yes the car can tell when it is rolling down a hill, it has an inertial sensor that applies the handbrake if you roll back at a stop
same sensor that applies the hazards under heavy braking

The 500 got an electronic handbrake then

So is this all models, nothing to do with having the hill holder thing you get with ESP? If so, my driveway slopes, I must give it a go! Hope it stops before it rolls into my neighbours house like my Stilo did!

Whoops

 

[eki]

Something doesnt add up. Unless this is the first ive seen it, but how can a fly by wire have the ability to soften and make the pedal more responsive when a button is pressed? (eg a sport button). Unless the 1.2 is fly by wire and the city button doesnt affect the throttle (correct me if im wrong with the 1.2 specs).

The reason i asked about the downhill is cause you could left foot brake down a hill (speedo will recognise a speed) and then rev up the engine tricking the computer into thinking you're moving or wanting to accelerate further more?

I just tried in my car before actually travelling about 60 km/h, left foot on brake, softly (so minimal speed decrease), right foot accelerating. Wasn't cutting in at all. Just straining the engine.

 

[white 500]

1.2 does'nt cut the throttle when braking i tried it last night although i thought the throttle pedal was a little bit too low for effective heel and toe. double de-clutching the car makes no difference to the up or down shift either tbh i dont think there is anything to be gained from doing it in the 500, may be more effective on the abarth to keep the turbo spooled up.

 

[grimwau]

Something doesnt add up. Unless this is the first ive seen it, but how can a fly by wire have the ability to soften and make the pedal more responsive when a button is pressed? (eg a sport button). Unless the 1.2 is fly by wire and the city button doesnt affect the throttle (correct me if im wrong with the 1.2 specs).

The reason i asked about the downhill is cause you could left foot brake down a hill (speedo will recognise a speed) and then rev up the engine tricking the computer into thinking you're moving or wanting to accelerate further more?

I just tried in my car before actually travelling about 60 km/h, left foot on brake, softly (so minimal speed decrease), right foot accelerating. Wasn't cutting in at all. Just straining the engine.

Eki, I can't comment on most of your query but I can tell you that the city button on the 1.2 only lightens the steering, the sport button is only available on the 1.4 and has two positions.

On = Sport mode which I believe increase throttle response and allows higher revs (possibly more)

Off = City Mode makes the steering lighter.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

:yeahthat: City button is for steering only, and sport will adjust throttle responsiveness, but not pressure/feel of pedal. (I hope that last bit makes sense).

Jon.

 

[eki]

sorry i just realised i got fly by wire and cable throttle confused. Ah well.