Technical Can my brakes be improved!!!

[dumbledore]

Ok here is the deal.
The car brakes quite well really. But it has this annoying behaviour: If lift foot of the brake after a brake action the brakes seem to have some delay. The brakes carry on braking a fraction longer then I would expect. Can this be improved? and what could cause it. My brake pads look like 70% and disks look new and no squeaking noises when the brakes are applied.

 

[DaveMcT]

Try stripping the front calipers, clean the sliding pins regrease and reassemble. Also clean the pad contact surfaces. If its still playing up the hydraulic seals may be sticking.

Also check the rear drums slave cylinders - can never be too careful.

 

[dumbledore]

Try stripping the front calipers, clean the sliding pins regrease and reassemble. Also clean the pad contact surfaces. If its still playing up the hydraulic seals may be sticking.

Also check the rear drums slave cylinders - can never be too careful.

OK this is an old thread but is now that I done something about it. I replaced the front pads a couple of weeks ago. The original problem I had is now gone. One of the pads seem to have stuck and the caliper was not returning properly after brake action causing the anoying delayed brake even when foot off the pedal. Also the stuck pad was showing excessive wear compared to all the others. Now however after running in the pads, the car will struggles to stop if I drive the car to the limit and require some spirited braking. It feels like the servo is not working. I did use cheap Ebay pads though. So you recon cheap pads can do this? or is there something else I should look for? or is this as expected from a Mk1 Punto (single disk, rear drums no ABS)

 

[s and b]

its a classic example of cheap pads how you describe it
i have a supplier of pads for puntos less than £10 all in and they bed in nice but i have to admit i outran them in wales 2 weeks back,i should have fitted mintex but i had these budget ones in stock

 

[Ziggy122]

lets put it this way
Brakes are like Heart Surgery, If done properly, the patient survives (in the happy story version) and every1 is happy

But if the surgeon cut corners and did things cheap - then there is complication


To put a long story short
Buy Decent Pads, They are a wear and tear item, dont skimp, as one day it could help you in a heavy braking or emergency situation

But Decent Brakes are nothing without decent tyres - another story

Also Check the rear drums, when loaded up, you can easily tell when the front brakes are working overtime, as you're planting the brakes alot, and there don't seem to much happen (as you cook them)

Ziggy

 

[dumbledore]

lets put it this way

Buy Decent Pads, They are a wear and tear item, dont skimp, as one day it could help you in a heavy braking or emergency situation

Ziggy

So what will be a decent make of pads then. On Ebay all I can see are no name with different price tags, so obviously I am tempted to go for the cheapest.

 

[Ziggy122]

So what will be a decent make of pads then. On Ebay all I can see are no name with different price tags, so obviously I am tempted to go for the cheapest.

Thats probably because they are all the same

I've had Ferodo on mine - the punto is a light and soft braking car, but the ferodo haven't let me down yet!, its me locking my tyres up that do it

ziggy

 

[DaveMcT]

As said, good quality pads are important, but if pads are wearing unevenly (whatever brand) it suggests the brakes are not mechanically 100%.

With the delay in the brake coming off I believe you still have a sticking mechanism. The pads are new so sticky sliders are unlikely. But the hydraulic seals will also cause a caliper to stick. Look at the side which is working normally and see which pad lands first when the brakes go on. If that is the one on the other side that's wearing too fast, you have a sticky piston seal.

You can get new seal kits or fit a service exchange caliper.

Dont forget to check those rear brakes.

Also we forgot to mention the brake hoses - sometimes they delaminate internally. If they are old change them first and see if things improve.

 

[dumbledore]

With the delay in the brake coming off I believe you still have a sticking mechanism. The pads are new so sticky sliders are unlikely. But the hydraulic seals will also cause a caliper to stick. Look at the side which is working normally and see which pad lands first when the brakes go on. If that is the one on the other side that's wearing too fast, you have a sticky piston seal.

I can confirm that now there is no delay so the brake pedal feel just right. The problem is that there is not very good stopping power when I need to stop quickly from high speeds (for the Punto).

 

[DaveMcT]

Fit new discs and better pads. Some folks like Greenstuff but they might be less good at low speeds (more leg muscle until they heat up).

Also fit new hoses because they get spongy with age.

Make sure the back brakes are 100% they can leak on older cars.

 

[reddy4bed]

Just go along to Fiat and put on the genuine pads, the difference in braking will be startling. I found out years ago that local garages and parts suppliers pads are normally well below standard. This applies to all makes of car.
Tony.

 

[fingers99]

Ferodo, Mintex, Dunlop, unless you want to go to green stuff (etc). For a much better result (given 14" wheels) go to Punto GT disks and calipers. You need decent tyres, but the best Cinqs use PGT bits.

 

[DaveMcT]

Get good quality tyres at least on the front. Just having enough tread is only part of the story.
Learn to cadence brake. IMHO it should be part of the driving test.
Make sure the pads are moving freely in the callipers.
Make sure all hoses and brake pistons are ok.

 

[tinytim]

Brakes on the Punto are usually pretty good; if discs are not worn no need to replace them but get Ferodo or Mintex pads; thoroughly clean the slots where the pads go and make sure the caliper slider is free; if mileage is high and calipers have never been replaced then renew them and definitely renew the flexible hoses; change the brake fluid and as previously advised inspect the rear brakes and if any doubt simply renew everything; handbrake cables, wheel cylinders, shoes, pins, drums and flexible hoses and also check the steel pipes and if any corrosion replace with copper.

 

[fingers99]

If replacing, copper-nickel is better than copper. Vibration will eventually crack copper ones. Neither copper-nickel or copper corrode.

 

[DaveMcT]

Brakes on the Punto are usually pretty good; if discs are not worn no need to replace them but get Ferodo or Mintex pads; thoroughly clean the slots where the pads go and make sure the caliper slider is free; if mileage is high and calipers have never been replaced then renew them and definitely renew the flexible hoses; change the brake fluid and as previously advised inspect the rear brakes and if any doubt simply renew everything; handbrake cables, wheel cylinders, shoes, pins, drums and flexible hoses and also check the steel pipes and if any corrosion replace with copper.

Good advice. There is no point in faffing about with some new and some old parts especially on the rear axle. It will cost a few ££s, but cheaper than an accident (or even having a car you cant use).

Ice however, need a different driving technique. Without ABS, simply planting your foot on the pedal where there is no grip is a fast way to a crash. Cadence braking (google it) does work but its not intuitive - you need to train yourself.

For metal brake pipes, just buy proper brake pipe tube from a motor factors and it will be fine. However, if they have rusted you need to ask about all the other brake parts and fix everything. Never skimp on brakes.

 

[dumbledore]

Was thinking for going for a different pads in the front to see if things improved. But before this I decided to experiment. I noticed that if I want to stop better from high speeds I should double press the brakes. It seems that if I do this the brakes do bite considerably better. I don't think the master cylinder is dead just the brakes fade if the pedal is pressed for long time (trying to stop from high speeds). I read somewhere that the pads emit some sort of gases so when you press the brakes the gases get in between the disk and the pads causing the fade. This is one reason why cross drilled and grooved disks are recommended. Is just possible that when I double brake I allow the gases to move on and then the brake action is restored.

 

[fingers99]

Just possible is right.

But it's far more likely to be the master cylinder or caliper.

 

[Ziggy122]

Gas(air) + Brakes = ****ed really

get the system bled
If the History of the fluid isn't know, get the fluid changed
As old fluid can soak up moisture and as a result goes spongy or unable to uncompress

Fluid SHOULD be replace every so often as well

Ziggy

 

[DaveMcT]

All "copper" tube sold for brakes is actually copper alloy. Pure copper would indeed be dangerous.

The one thing we haven't mentioned is the discs. If they are grooved, any new pads will take a long time to bed in. New discs are so cheap its daft to not change them with the pads.