Technical Cam belt explanation

[Kieran83]

Folks,

The car is booked in for the cam belt on monday morning, I know what it does but what sort of benefits are there to having it done? Performance at all? Fuel consumption?

Or the fact that it shouldnt snap for a while?!
Thanks
kieran

 

[Shminkypinky]

Don't think a cam belt change is noticable in the way the car drives/performs!

The only benefit gain that I can think of is a monetary gain in the sense of saving you a fortune if it did go! obviously you would never know but would you want to risk it? Had mine changed recently too!

 

[garsenior]

Kieran83 looks like you got the same model as me how much is is costing you, and is it with a dealer or another garage thanks.

 

[Kieran83]

Its being done in a mr clutch....have had works done before on the car in there and not had any problems. The manager has quoted me £218, including labour. I asked a mechanic friend of mine if this was about right and he said that it was a pretty good price given the job that needed doing!

 

[roy lovelock]

Ouch, mines 5 in feb and im planning to get it done then. Im wondering if any members here have done it themselves as im of the old school that was always tinkering with the cars and any job a garage could do i could do cheaper.
I just repaired and re installed my gearbox on my stilo so im assuming that a cam belt should be a walk in the park, anyone got any info on tools needed etc and markings on the block.

roy

 

[Stilo_ste]

Mine's due in a few months (based on 5 years, not mileage)

I can get a kit for about £50, why don't you write a 'how to' guide to help everyone out??


Anyone get any info from any official source as to details for this? Surely Fiat issue procedures to the dealers in a format that can be copied and distributed.

 

[PNL]

Anyone who has the latest version of the fiat maintenance CD will have a step by step guide how to do it on there I just managed to load my old disc up and it give the basic procedures for the job but neglected to tell you that you have to take off the front drivers side wheel and wheel arch liner to get at the crank pulley

 

[LoBsTeR]

Never done this on a Stilo, but replaced the head on a Vectra twin cam and that was an annoying job. The cam belt part was a piece of cake by comparison.

 

[alexGS]

I'd like to know, since we're on the topic of cambelt replacement, why do the pulleys have to be unbolted from the camshafts? This is going by the FIAT instructions from the CD (which I downloaded somewhere), where they say to remove the pulleys, fit locking tools, and re-align the pulleys (which are not keyed to the camshafts!) Why can't the belt simply be replaced leaving the pulleys as they are?

-Alex

 

[Kieran83]

Ok, so the cam belt has now been done. All is cool except now the car whilst idling is jerking about and the car sounds like a diesel! Pull off is a lot smoother and general acceleration feels better but that could just be in my head.
I Opened the bonnet and had a look at the engine its making alot more movement than it used to, juddering if you like.
IS this normal or has the cam belt been fitted by a monkey?!

Thanks
kieran

 

[PNL]

Ok, so the cam belt has now been done. All is cool except now the car whilst idling is jerking about and the car sounds like a diesel! Pull off is a lot smoother and general acceleration feels better but that could just be in my head.
I Opened the bonnet and had a look at the engine its making alot more movement than it used to, juddering if you like.
IS this normal or has the cam belt been fitted by a monkey?!

Thanks
kieran

Monkey come to mind ..one tooth out and your in deep doo

 

[Kieran83]

Oh excellent...just what i need! Ill phone them tomorrow and do some classic shouting.
When i picked it up the guy said the whole engine had to be lifted out to have the belt fitted which i thought at the time sounded a bit drastic and possibly ill advised but thought nothing of it, does this sound about right?

 

[PNL]

I'd like to know, since we're on the topic of cambelt replacement, why do the pulleys have to be unbolted from the camshafts? This is going by the FIAT instructions from the CD (which I downloaded somewhere), where they say to remove the pulleys, fit locking tools, and re-align the pulleys (which are not keyed to the camshafts!) Why can't the belt simply be replaced leaving the pulleys as they are?

-Alex

Alex they say they remove the cam sprockets because very probably the locking tools wont fit any other way ..bit of a bum Idea IMO ..there has to be some way of locking them without removing them surely ..I also don't like the idea of making marks from the cam sprockets to the block either ..the reason why in my mind is simply that you don't know for definitely if the timing from the crank to the sprockets is correct in the first place ..it will be in the majority of applications but if the timing belt has be put on incorrectly in the first place from another source then that needs to be put right when the new belt is fitted ..just my two pence worth on the subject.

I will say this though about the fitting of the 1.6 belt ..it would seem from the directions on my old disc that there appears to be two notches on the crank pulley because the instruction goes like this ..[1] Turn crank pulley in the normal rotation to line up the notch[1a] on pulley with notch [1b] on timing cover [fine so far] now check that notch [2a] stamped on the crank pulley is aligned with the RPM sensor [2b].. now remove the bolts from the timing covers ..next remove the crank pulley hang on a minute just trying to undo the bolt in the centre of this pulley alone is going to move everything around I think this should have been slackened first before you do anything else don't you MR fiat manual and on and on it goes with these little contradiction and things out of stripping down order or should I say disorder ..then it goes on to say "Fit the tool to lock the cams and loosen the cam belt and prise off and remove the belt" :bang: excuse me shouldn't I have slackened the tensioner first lol.. Hang on "clonk" in the bin with you thats the best place for you :devil:

 

[Rich]

Oh excellent...just what i need! Ill phone them tomorrow and do some classic shouting.
When i picked it up the guy said the whole engine had to be lifted out to have the belt fitted which i thought at the time sounded a bit drastic and possibly ill advised but thought nothing of it, does this sound about right?

No.

Where did you get this done? Surely not at a FIAT garage? If you don't mind me asking, how much did they charge? Taking the engine out must have cost a pretty penny!!

 

[PNL]

Its not necessary to remove the engine on the 1.6 for the cam belt but I do believe they need to remove the engine mounting on that side so the the engine can be jacked up slightly for more clearance ..if that was me I would be just in the process of ordering a kalashnikov from my friendly arms dealer and making my way down there

 

[Argonought]

Seriously, I'd start taking notes and evidence ready for a massive claim through the County Court (it could get worse yet )

 

[Deckchair5]

Well this looks like it could be a hot topic as there are many Stilo engines now coming up to the magic 5 years old, mine included and i intend changing mine soon, very, very soon honest

The reason why Fiat explain loosening and moving the cam sprockets is so that with the cams locked into place the sprockets can be moved very slightly, if necessary in order to get perfect alignment with the new belt teeth. OK point taken but it tends to forget the fact that the new belt (like all belts) will stretch most of all in the first 100 miles and put everything out again Ha!

They don't put timing marks on Fiat engines for that reason so, no matter what method you use, PUT YOUR OWN TIMING MARKS ON THE CAMS AND CRANK BEFORE YOU TAKE THE OLD BELT OFF

I think I could do a 1.2 cambelt and tensioner now in my sleep and the 1.6 engine is very similar. Those of you with variators 1.8, 1.9 and 2.4 will have to make your own rules up

Logic would tell us that if
1 The engine was running fine before you do a belt change
2 You put your own timing marks on the cams and crankshaft before removing the old belt
3 You don't move cams or crank significantly
4 You tension the new belt correctly
5 The timing marks are in line again as before
6 You rotate the engine by hand a few times
7 You double check the timing marks are still in line
Then obviously the engine will run just as nicely at the end of the job as when you started

More problems arise because people don't put timing marks on BEFORE they start. The number of Fiats I've read about that come out of garages (mostly non Fiat garages but not always) one tooth or more out make you wonder. It'll run even one or two teeth out but will be pretty rough to drive
and it sounds as if that's just what Keiran is experiencing

Retightening those cam sprockets, I think, causes more misalignment than it's meant to prevent. If only people would mark everything before they start then it's easy but once you loosen those sprockets then everything goes

To gain access to the timing belt you just need to remove side engine mount along with the belts in that area of alternator and air con but they'll need replacing anyway at this age

The reference to the gap in the timing sprocket teeth is just to get the pistons near TDC position. If you're not going to use cam locking tools then you don't need that

 

[PNL]

Nice pics once again Decks

 

[Deckchair5]

Cheers!
I have my cambelt and tensioner and aux belts on order now so it won't be long

 

[Streaky]

mine just hit the magic 5yr mark its only done 38k but played it safe and as the book says i got the belt changed this weekend along with a 5year service from a very good local mechanic, cost £386 for the lot. so far so good, no nasty shakes, rattles or clunking noises to report!