General Calling all start 'n' stop owners!

[306maxi]

Afternoon everyone,

We just managed to get ours built before Start n Stop became standard, and I've always been of the opinion that I'm grateful not to have it. That said I would be willing to have a go in one so that I can make my mind up once and for all!

For those of you who have mastered it, I'm curious as to the benefits of it - has it really helped your fuel consumption? Is it useful for anything else?

There's nothing to master though, the system does it all automatically. Also, no one would know if it makes a difference tbh as you'd have to have a non-s&s 500 to compare it to.

 

[keeforelli]

There's nothing to master though, the system does it all automatically. Also, no one would know if it makes a difference tbh as you'd have to have a non-s&s 500 to compare it to.

if you use it every time you come to a halt it stops your average MPG being pulled down by using fuel when covering no distance....

its a very simple idea....i use it religiously as it feels wasteful now to have the engine running when i dont need it...

 

[306maxi]

if you use it every time you come to a halt it stops your average MPG being pulled down by using fuel when covering no distance....

its a very simple idea....i use it religiously as it feels wasteful now to have the engine running when i dont need it...

Of course, but what I'm saying is that no one really knows exactly how much fuel it saves unless they can do a direct comparison. I also switch off my engine when I'm stationary because like you say, it's a lot of waste for no gain.

 

[keeforelli]

Of course, but what I'm saying is that no one really knows exactly how much fuel it saves unless they can do a direct comparison. I also switch off my engine when I'm stationary because like you say, it's a lot of waste for no gain.

this is true- my post was more in reply to the one u were responding to- i just quoted the wrong bit!!

 

[lex123]

I have a stop and start and the aforementioned lights came on two minutes after leaving the garage where I bought it. They managed to turn them off only for it to happen again two minutes later.After a third visit to have the lights turned off and some explanation I was informed it was because I was using clutch control and had to change the way I drive.The lights came back on yesterday.

 

[Alfastealth]

Had the 500 a week and its happend twice, going back to the dealer Tuesday. Has anyone tried switching ss off as a test? Logging a call with Fiat Monday first thing

 

[JimR123]

I'm back on this thread, because our stop'n'start warning lights have come back on again! but read on...

As you may have notice from another thread of mine, our little car has been involved in an accident, where a big truck knocked it into a spin, and half the air bags popped out. This makes us grateful that we considered safety when we bought the car, as looking at some other cars we looked at in the same price and size range, we can see that there would have been potentially serious injuries in those cars in the same incident. We're particularly grateful for those side air-bags.

Unfortunately, this meant our car was in the shop for a while, and as part of the repairs, it seems that the on-board computers needed resetting to factory defaults, it seems.

As the solution to our warning lights issue was to apply a software update, it seems that the garage who did the factory reset (a Fiat dealer), didn't check which updates were already applied, and just left it with the software which it had when it had the warning lights problem.

Dissapointing, but at least we think we know it can be fixed quite easily. Now we just have to re-convince our dealer that we know what the fix is for it...

 

[keeforelli]

I'm back on this thread, because our stop'n'start warning lights have come back on again! but read on...

As you may have notice from another thread of mine, our little car has been involved in an accident, where a big truck knocked it into a spin, and half the air bags popped out. This makes us grateful that we considered safety when we bought the car, as looking at some other cars we looked at in the same price and size range, we can see that there would have been potentially serious injuries in those cars in the same incident. We're particularly grateful for those side air-bags.

Unfortunately, this meant our car was in the shop for a while, and as part of the repairs, it seems that the on-board computers needed resetting to factory defaults, it seems.

As the solution to our warning lights issue was to apply a software update, it seems that the garage who did the factory reset (a Fiat dealer), didn't check which updates were already applied, and just left it with the software which it had when it had the warning lights problem.

Dissapointing, but at least we think we know it can be fixed quite easily. Now we just have to re-convince our dealer that we know what the fix is for it...

a small price to pay for your safety i guess.....

 

[Goodvins]

Hi, I took delivery of a 1.4 Sport SS ten days ago and it has already been back to the garage once. They delivered back to me saying the problem had been fixed but when I turned the ignition on, the whole array of signs was there to greet me again. I also get the engine management light and "Check engine" plus a bip when I start the car. From reading the posts, I thought it had been sorted on the more recent models. Anyone else having this problem? I love my car and don't want to have to reject it

 

[D4nny8oy]

Hi, I took delivery of a 1.4 Sport SS ten days ago and it has already been back to the garage once. They delivered back to me saying the problem had been fixed but when I turned the ignition on, the whole array of signs was there to greet me again. I also get the engine management light and "Check engine" plus a bip when I start the car. From reading the posts, I thought it had been sorted on the more recent models. Anyone else having this problem? I love my car and don't want to have to reject it

The issue is fixed on later models (apart from where people are holding the vehicle on the clutch, eg. on a hill, where it understandably gets confused).

Having the Engine management lamp on wasn't in the symptoms, and the S/S errors occured while manoevering- not on startup. The problem you've got is something else.

 

[Goodvins]

Thanks for the help. Of course, the garage says that it is because of holding it on the clutch which I know was not the case on Saturday so thanks for confirming that I am not going crazy:slayer:. I had just reversed out of a parking space in which I had been parked for a while so the engine was cold - which I gather can trigger it as well according to other posts.

They reset it for me this morning and gave me a test drive. To sum it up for everyone, the fault will occur with the start and stop if the car is held on the clutch for ten seconds or more. Tests with the garage this morning have shown that the fault will occur whether or not the handbrake is also on (I had been told before that it could only happen if the handbrake was still on) and even if the start and stop system is deactivated at the start of the journey. It will not happen (so they say) if the car is moving and the clutch is pressed, even for more than ten seconds.

The software fix which is mentioned in this thread was for the 2009 models - on the 2009 models, the fault would be triggered after being on the clutch for 4 seconds or more. The "update" was increasing the time from 4 seconds to 10 seconds. The fault is therefore not fixed; it just allows for longer "driver error".

 

[D4nny8oy]

The clutch pedal switch can only "see" if the pedal is pressed, halfway, or released. Holding it on the biting point, eg pulling away uphill will cause the general failure and S/S unavailable warnings as it assumes a fault in the neutral position sensor (vehicle in-gear, clutch released, but vehicle not moving???).

Increasing the clutch slipping "time-out" to 10 secs cured the issue as it should be plenty of time to pull away. Unfortunately it seems many people, young and old, use clutch-slip excessively to hold their car on a slope, say, while waiting at a junction which causes the problem. No amount of software tweaking can account for huge variations in driving style and methods.

Hopefully, one day people will realise the lever on the floor between the seats is a more effective way to hold a car stationary, although we won't sell as many clutch kits. Win some/ lose some.

 

[grimwau]

Another benefit of ESP is the hill holding capability which I believe is becoming standard fitting across the EU next year and should help resolve this problem.

This, of course, still depends on people being fully aware of exactly how the S/S system works.

This involves reading the manual for the basics and also taking onboard the more specific information given by those who actually work each day on the problems.

 

[Goodvins]

Back again with the third incident in a week. First time, I was reversing out of a parking space on flat ground, second time, the garage did "something" when it returned my car - best assumption being either that they held it on the clutch coming into the property or it happened when they were parking it back in my very flat parking spot and third time, my father was maneuvering it in the garden in a very tight space, foot on the clutch to control the car but moving. Using the handbrake there is not an option because of the topography which I won't bore anyone with but there are cases when you do need to use the clutch to control the speed of the car and when the handbrake is not a solution.

Three different drivers, three different scenarios - I am about to reject the car as it is clearly not fit for purpose. Has anyone managed to do this yet?

 

[paulnb57]

Probably a bit early in the life of my 2010 500c 1.2 Pop to comment with any confidence, as Ive only done 400 miles! However I have not had any problems with the stop start.....yet.
I have to reverse out of the drive and switch the SS off when I remember as I dont do much stopping and starting on the work run, so it would be of very little benefit to me in mpg terms. Actually I wish I could turn it off altogether!!

Paul

 

[jeb1]

Had my fiat 500 for one year now. Must say I am delighted with it but wish I had not got a stop start. It has a tendency to hiccup at lights and certainly does not seem to give any fuel savings. On average I get 47 miles to the gallon. Never had the warning lights on, since it was fixed six months ago. Just think it needs a bit more refining. All other makes of cars that I have driven in that have the stop start system, have been miles ahead of this one.

 

[alison01]

Bought a new 500C last Friday and have had it back at the garage 3 times since then (now Wednesday). Warning triangle kept coming on, with a line through the Start and Stop symbol (system de-activated) and a message to check engine. Every time, supposed to be fixed and yet problem re-occurred. Eventually, Fiat have said that this is caused by driving style (!!!) ie for example sitting at an intersection with clutch depressed and car in gear rather than car in neutral with foot not on clutch. When car moves forward, start and stop system clocks this as an error and shuts down. I wonder how many drivers put the car in neutral when trying to get out of a busy junction? Fiat apparently do not see this problem as a technical fault. I just think this system is not driver-friendly. I am unlikely to change my driving style after 40 incident-free years at the wheel. Now when I start the engine to go anywhere, I turn start and stop off so as not to be driving round with warning symbols on my dashboard. Anyone had this explanation given to them for start and stop problems?

 

[Draven Crow]

I just can't believe this. I had so many problems getting my 500, and now this! I originaly ordered a car without S&S last year, but the dealer placed the order wrong so after waiting 8 months for it, the wrong car arrived. Eventually, after a very long battle with them and Fiat, they ordered me a new car which I now have. Unfortunately, because it's now 2010, it came with S&S, which I didn't even want, but I accepted because they didn't charge me for it.

About 3 weeks after I got the car I started getting the 'Start & Stop Unavailable' message popping up at random intervals, occasionally with the generic warning light as well. I'm not using the S&S much, but on most of the occasions where I have the car has just stalled on me. Then at the weekend I started the car up on a warm sunny morning, and all of the warning lights came on, the car spluttered away violently for a while and stalled. I was shocked. A brand new car should not be behaving like this!

The whole thing reminds me of the problems I had with my old Fiat Cinquecento, which I'm starting to seriously regret getting rid of!!

Fiat have always had a bad reputation when it comes to electrics, but the 500 was supposed to throw off all of that bad press. Obviously they've tried to run before they can walk with this S&S.

I'm so disappointed. I've been waiting to have a lovely, new, working car since I originally placed my order in September 2009. It's beyond a joke now, isn't it?

:Edit: As far as fuel conumption goes, I have been able to directly compare with and without S&S because I was driving a 1.2 POP with the exact spec (The previous car had a fixed glass roof and the new one has an opening roof) without S&S while I was waiting for this one. I drove exactly the same route to work each morning and back again. The MPG is almost exactly the same. The car with S&S feels heavier to drive and less powerful. I don't know if the extra weight is from the opening roof or the S&S or a bit of both, but it seems to be dragging a lot more, which is using any fuel saved by the S&S. It's not worth it, and I wish I didn't have it.

 

[grimwau]

DC, can't offer any advice re the S/S but other 1.2 owners all state that the MPG and performance improves once you have a few thousand miles on the clock.

 

[Draven Crow]

DC, can't offer any advice re the S/S but other 1.2 owners all state that the MPG and performance improves once you have a few thousand miles on the clock.

Thats good to hear I'm on about 2500 miles at the mo, and it has all started to loosen up nicely, so fingers crossed!