Mine is working as expected, sorry for those who are having trouble. 
General Calling all start 'n' stop owners!
- Thread starter JimR123
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General Calling all start 'n' stop owners!
Its not that its not working "Reliably" its not working AT ALL, unless the battery is charged on a charger before the car is used, the battery has already been changed for a New Fiat battery, so I doublt buying a third party one would help (And why would I go for that expense on a new car)
The S&S is a feature of the car, if it does nto work and cannot be fixed then its grounds for rejection, without the S&S system that car is not meeting its published emisisons levels etc
Apart from the fact that when it becomes time to sell it, how would I look saying to the buyer, Oh the S&S doesnt work but dont worry about it!!!!
It will go back tomorrow and they will have as long as they need to resolve it, but if they dont I will file for rejection with Fiat and also my Credit card company (I paid £1000 deposit on my CC for the specific reason that it gives extra protection against the transaction)
Will see how it goes tomorrow and update, dont really want to go down a rejection route it took long enough to get the car, but I am not going to live it it not working as it should.
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I genuinely sympathise with you that it's not working on your new 500c. But given that you were already owned a 500 you would have been aware of the S/S issues on the new models. So in reality you knew what you are were buying. Still no excuse for Fiat not getting this feature right and it might be the reason why it is not a standard fit on the new Panda 2012 1.2 model. Personally I could 'live with it' and I would manually turn the car off at lights when I know that I will be waiting for several minutes. The downside for me is that the B&Me does not work but it remains working on the Tom Tom for one of the mobiles. I reckon that if the S/S was removed from the TA it would still get under the 100grs/km and beat the current London Congestion charge. The 'fear' I would have is that Fiat may decide not to provide the S/S unless you paid for it.
Sorry but I dont get what you are trying to say, S&S works fine on any other 500 I have driven, Fiat Tech themselves admit there is a FAULT on the S&S on this car
Also the fault is causing other problems (When you stop and the car should cut out it does not but the revs dip and it idles at about 600rpm, when you try to pull away this causes a hesitent take off and misfires) other times when you stop the engine idles at 2000rpm (Even when warm), again not a normal action
This is not the normal issue with S&S this is a complete failure of the system to work on this particular car, as you stated I had a 500 before and have had other 500s on loan, I know the S&S system well and know when it should work this one DOES NOT AT ALL.
So its not like its just a system that works under certain conditions, (We knwo that certain conditions have to be met for it to work) this particular model does not work at all unless the battery has be charged just before use.
Luckily I contract for a newspaper with an excellent legal dept as well as one of the most respected motoring journalists in the country. Who have provided all the form letters to deliver to the dealer, they have confirmed the dealer has 3 chances to rectify and if not as long as the vehicle is under 6 months old a rejection is made onder the sale of goods act, it was also this legal dept that advised to pay the deposit on a credit card so if there were any problems the CC would also be liable under consumer law.
Anyway lets hope they get it sorted tomorrow, I am prepared to leave it with them to resolve, and they have a tech ticket open with Fiat who seem willing to replace multiple parts to find out what is not working
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It is not as "hard and fast" as (i) three attempts to fix or (ii) less than 6 months' owenrship.
The important part is not doing anything inconsistent with you not accepting that you own it.
You are fine in your position, but if someone else has a problem after 5 months at a time when they have added their own accessories or modified the car in any way (for example) then they would be very unlikely still to have the right to reject.
Hi - Flashyphotos original 500 was like mine a pre S&S model, so no reason to have inside knowledge of the problems. I don't accept that there is any excuse for this function not to be working 100% correctly on a brand-new £15K + car! You say you don't make want to make excuses for Fiat then please don't defend them by saying 'in reality you knew what you were buying'.
Out of interest it works fine on our new 1.2!
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Whilst I agree that it should work, it's hardly the biggest issue in the world to live with whilst it's getting resolved. If it were my car I'd be patient and wait for the issue to be sorted.
Yes, I agree, as I said I am happy for them to keep it and resolve
But bearing in mind the following
They have admitted they have no clue what is causing it, and said it may just be a case of changing bits till it works, (Battery Done, I Think Alternator was the next thing they were considering)
That becomes a problem, as I am going to be constantly taking it in for a day here and there. My work schedule does not really allow that, and add to the fact I have to pay Congestion Charge days I am not using it if travelling to London., (And the fact they are very hard to squeeze a courtesy car out of !). So it means OH having to take time off to follow me up there collect me and drop me back once its done (60 Min round trip)
Anyway will see what happens after tomorrow, but so far it seems as the computer is not telling them what the fault is they are rather stumped (Although at least admitting there is a fault!)
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D4nny8oy
Established member
Forgive me, but whenever we had a car fault that was tricky to pin down and/or replicate, once we believed we had found the cause it was normal for the DET to use the car for a few days travelling to and from work to ensure the fault was fixed for good. The car was then returned with a full tank of fuel and/or other goodwill gestures.
I can't see why they should expect you to keep picking it up and bringing it back each time a part doesn't cure it? With the amount of data available to the Tech's, the fault finding should be fairly straight forward.
I can't see why they should expect you to keep picking it up and bringing it back each time a part doesn't cure it? With the amount of data available to the Tech's, the fault finding should be fairly straight forward.
I think the problem comes when some customers want the car back the same day rather than just letting the dealership have it for a couple of days.
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On the test drives that I have had - and I've had plenty
- only one car (it was a TA) cut out on the 'Start / Start'. The rest of the cars gave 'Stop / Start unavailable'. This included a recent test drive of a well maintained 2 year old 'Fiat'. It would easily mirror the statistics on the above poll so I don't really accept that 'S&S is fine on other Fiats'.The advice of paying £1K by credit card by way of deposit as means to recover costs if 'things go pear shaped' gives me the impression that you prepared yourself for any issues that could arise.
It was only a matter of time before someone challenged the S/S feature and does not just apply to the 500 in the Fiat / Alfa range. It will be interesting to see if the technicians can get to the 'bottom of the problem' because it might give a 'marker' to other individuals who have the same issue.
Lastly, I can totally empatise with the inconvenience of leaving a car in for 'trouble-shooting' and D4nny8oy's posting is apt. Wish you the best of luck in getting a satisfactory outcome.
TrevC
Established member
Mine works as expected, too, but it wouldn't inconvenience me if it didn't. However, I can understand Flashyphotos wanting it sorted ASAP because a) it's a fault on a new car he's paid a lot of money for and b) as time goes on it will get harder to reject the car. A few years ago a mate of mine successfully rejected his new Mini because the alarm kept going off. BMW ordered him another and loaned him a 1-series for the 8 weeks it took to build it. It will be interesting to see how Fiat proceed.
Quick update,
Just had a call from the dealer.
They said a Fiat Tech who was on site today has had a look at it and diagnosed that the Alternator is not providing a stable charge (Works fine for a few mins then charge drops and then restores etc etc), as such they now think faulty alternator.
Did not have one in stock so its on order, they are keeping the car till its fitted and resolved
Will update again once its back from them.
Just had a call from the dealer.
They said a Fiat Tech who was on site today has had a look at it and diagnosed that the Alternator is not providing a stable charge (Works fine for a few mins then charge drops and then restores etc etc), as such they now think faulty alternator.
Did not have one in stock so its on order, they are keeping the car till its fitted and resolved
Will update again once its back from them.
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Thanks for the update Flashyphotos. I thought at one point it might my end up in 'protracted negotiations'.
That's great that you're on the 'home stretch'.
Thanks for the update Flashyphotos. I thought at one point it might my end up in 'protracted negotiations'.
That's great that you're on the 'home stretch'.
I must say the do seem to be more than willing to change bits till it gets sorted (Sometimes with these tough to diagnose items it can be a real challenge to get the dealer to look at it), but since day one when the Tech took it out and it failed on him they seem to be taking it seriously.
Fingers crossed the Alternator cures it, with luck I will get it back tomorrow and will update after I have run it for a couple of days.
my 5 week old fiat 500 the battery now is only 50% charged this is when i connected a new battery charger 6 amp.the battery fully charges in about 8 hours but after a couple of days the battery charge drops to 50% again this is using the car it is not standing. wonder if the alternator is the problem with my car.
TrevC
Established member
Allan
If you have access to any test equipment, you can connect a voltmeter across the battery terminals. With the engine running, it should read around 14.5V if the alternator is charging it. I've got a handy little gadget that plugs into the 12V socket. Of course, your dealer should sort you out, but I always like to go armed with as much info as possible.
If you have access to any test equipment, you can connect a voltmeter across the battery terminals. With the engine running, it should read around 14.5V if the alternator is charging it. I've got a handy little gadget that plugs into the 12V socket. Of course, your dealer should sort you out, but I always like to go armed with as much info as possible.
Try driving it while you are checking,
The dealer who did mine, said the alternator showed as fine when stationary on the test rig, but when they took it out for a test hooked up to a laptop it showed the alternator was cuttting in and out while driving.
Been replaced now as per my other thread but will not know if problem has been cured for a couple of days as they charged up the battery as well
The dealer who did mine, said the alternator showed as fine when stationary on the test rig, but when they took it out for a test hooked up to a laptop it showed the alternator was cuttting in and out while driving.
Been replaced now as per my other thread but will not know if problem has been cured for a couple of days as they charged up the battery as well
D4nny8oy
Established member
A trickle charger is no good for a modern car battery. Needs to be a pulse charger for it to take and hold the charge, otherwise you only give it a surface charge which dissipates away and leaves you no better off.
