General Broken Tonka toy :(

[Fariniac]

My little Tonka Toy (as I call it) 500 1.4 Sport has had to go in to the dealers today. It started making a grating/flapping noise when pulling up hill or pulling away but mainly when slowing down using engine braking.

So I popped it into Reseach Garage in Nuneaton where I bought it from 2 years ago.

Took one of their inspectors out for a quick spin round and he said "yup, I can hear it.....sounds like a gearbox bearing, probably the main bearing. You can either leave it with us or drop it in on Wednesday. If it's the gearbox bearing it will be under warranty but as it's in it's 3rd year we have to get a Fiat engineer out to look at it" so I left it with them.

They loaned me a 1.2 pop in BNW. Have to say it drives quite nice, but I am very pleased that I opted for the 1.4 when I bought mine instead of the 1.2.

The 1.2 is very nice round town, but once out on the open road I can really feel the difference in power. Accelerates nicely upto 15-20 mph but then the power drops off which is right around the area that the 1.4 starts to come alive. Took some getting used to, as did the lack of 6th gear, the amount of times I've nearly put it in reverse driving around today is scary....lol

But, they have the gearbox off the car now and are waiting for the Fiat engineer to come and look at it which should be about wednesday. So may be without my Tonka toy for a week or more

Gutted, was going to head to the south coast for the weekend. Technically I could take the pop down there, but I really don't want to not with a £750 insurance excess!

But, it gives me a few days to do a 1.4 vs 1.2 comparison and pop v sport. Although no B&M so no steering controls or USB in the pop, which is a bit of pain as all the music I play in the car is on USB..hehe.

Can anyone tell me what the City button actually does? The sport button on mine makes the accelerator more responsive and tightens the steering, but I feel no difference at all when I press the city button in the pop, must be making some difference to the engine performance I guess.

Just thought I'd share the story in case anyone else wants to read it

 

[RobinPJ]

It lightens the steering up to a certain speed - 40kmh I vaguely (wrongly probably) recall.

 

[loveshandbags]

.....sounds like a gearbox bearing, probably the main bearing.

Sorry to hear about the gearbox giving you trouble on the 1.4.
I wonder if the additional cog has weakened the C514 gearbox ?
Looking at a previous post you made on 'how reliable is your 500 ?' you might have been testing fate.
There have been the odd update about the 6 speed gearbox on the NA MiTo needing a re-build but this is the first time I've seen it on the 500 1.4 Petrol.

 

[RobW]

hope its an easy fix/warranty

my 500 1.4 took all the abuse i gave it :devil:

 

[Fariniac]

I wonder if the additional cog has weakened the C514 gearbox ?
Looking at a previous post you made on 'how reliable is your 500 ?' you might have been testing fate.

Deffinaterly tempted fate one too many times.

Inspector said it's the 1st time that he has heard of that failing on a 1.4 Petrol. I tend not to strain the G/B much, only times it gets hammered (pushed hard) is when I got to Dorset and I have to drop down the gears to get up some of the BIG hills trying (sometimes failing due to lack of power) to overtake trucks and caravans.

The 1.4 has a fair bit of pulling power, but compared to my old 2.0L 20V Coupe it has no get up and go when it hits a hill and sometimes I forget and get carried away...hehe

Have to say, the 1.2 loses less percentage of it's pull when it hits a hill. It doesn't have so much to start with, but it does seem to lose a lower percentage of what it has got.
Drives very nice and smooth around town, but took it over to my friends in Birmingham (about 30 miles) and I really missed the extra HP that the 1.4 offers even though the 1.2 still ha a good head of speed when cruising on the motorway.

The suspension on th 1.2 seems firmer than on my 1.4, not as bouncy when you hit a bump. Might have to look into a spring/damper upgrade on mine when I get the money together.

 

[jnoiles]

The gearbox in the 1.4 is a tough little unit for the application. Mines been tortured beyond all reason with Nurburgring trips, track days and generally being driven everywhere like its on a tarmac rally stage. It's been reasonably solid. I don't suppose you've tried changing the gearbox oil to see if the noise goes away? I'm not entirely convinced that Fiat use a great oil.

 

[Fariniac]

Trust me matey, that noise said "gearbox bearing about as much use as concrete block".

I do wonder if they messed up when they did the last service and didn't use the right oil or something, it was about 4 - 6 weeks after the service that this started but that is probably just coincidence.

I have got to give them a ring tomorrow and see what progress has been made, hopefully it's done and dusted.
Have to say though that the 1.2 in the loan car feels more alive than the 1.4, just doesn't have the power further up.
Pulling away at lights and junctions it feel far more imediate until you get to about 20-30mph then I can feel the difference between it and the 1.4. This engine is damn good fun though

 

[306maxi]

Trust me matey, that noise said "gearbox bearing about as much use as concrete block".

I do wonder if they messed up when they did the last service and didn't use the right oil or something, it was about 4 - 6 weeks after the service that this started but that is probably just coincidence.

I have got to give them a ring tomorrow and see what progress has been made, hopefully it's done and dusted.
Have to say though that the 1.2 in the loan car feels more alive than the 1.4, just doesn't have the power further up.
Pulling away at lights and junctions it feel far more imediate until you get to about 20-30mph then I can feel the difference between it and the 1.4. This engine is damn good fun though

The 1.2 is a great citycar engine No more no less

 

[jnoiles]

The 1.2 is a great citycar engine No more no less

Says the man who drove a 1.2, four up, across Europe.

 

[stu0710]

The 1.2 is a fine touring car and again I have to say shouldn't be regarded just as a town car! Sure at 69 BHP it has less power than many cars, but it is only a small car!

I remember in the 1970's my father had a Citroen GS estate - 1222 cc, 60 BHP of air-cooled power, and we travelled across France, 4 up, towing a small caravan without any trouble!

 

[306maxi]

Says the man who drove a 1.2, four up, across Europe.

3 up

 

[jrkitching]

The 1.2 is a great citycar engine No more no less

It's a jolly good ecocar engine though .

 

[306maxi]

yup!

 

[Fariniac]

Yeah, far better on fuel than my 1.4, which I have just fetched back.

Turned out to be the main shaft bearing and another bearing I can't remember the name of right now. They replaced the bearing had to do a full gearbox rebuild. It feels a lot smoother and I am happy to say a whole lot quieter

I enjoyed the 1.2 and am actually sorry to see it go, but I am glad to have my 1.4 back. No matter how good the replacement, it's always good to have your own car back

 

[alexGS]

Yeah, far better on fuel than my 1.4, which I have just fetched back.

Turned out to be the main shaft bearing and another bearing I can't remember the name of right now. They replaced the bearing had to do a full gearbox rebuild. It feels a lot smoother and I am happy to say a whole lot quieter

I enjoyed the 1.2 and am actually sorry to see it go, but I am glad to have my 1.4 back. No matter how good the replacement, it's always good to have your own car back

I'm completely in agreement with you over the 1.2 vs. 1.4 comparison... I think the 1.2 is easier to drive and definitely much more economical... still, the 1.4 does offer a nicer sound and more power when you go for it. And, it's still more economical (at 6.5L/100km) than the 8.2L/100km (33mpg) that I managed to squeeze out of my 166 today!

-Alex

 

[loveshandbags]

I'm completely in agreement with you over the 1.2 vs. 1.4 comparison... I think the 1.2 is easier to drive and definitely much more economical... still, the 1.4 does offer a nicer sound and more power when you go for it. And, it's still more economical (at 6.5L/100km) than the 8.2L/100km (33mpg) that I managed to squeeze out of my 166 today!

-Alex

That's a great collection of cars you still have.
You did well getting 33mpg out of a V6.

 

[alexGS]

Thank you kindly - nothing as trendy and economical as a Mito though

The auto makes the 166 worse than my old 164. I think if it were a manual, I could get 36. Around town the 166 is a disaster - 20mpg or so - turning circle of a bus and the wide screen pillars very close create dangerous blind spots. I nearly drove out into a pedestrian last week as they simply weren't there when I looked. You know that feeling when you jam on the brakes and your heart skips a beat?

Just as well I almost never drive the 166 in town, I use my 500 exclusively as it's so much nicer to manoeuvre and see out of!

166 is a lovely car on the open road though and takes over where the 500 leaves off, though I have used the 500 for a few two-hour business trips after the 166 suffered a small attack of randomwarninglightitis. The 500 is a car I can trust...

-Alex

 

[chas379]

3 up

Prefer 7Up of the Diet variety

 

[Fariniac]

I'm completely in agreement with you over the 1.2 vs. 1.4 comparison... I think the 1.2 is easier to drive and definitely much more economical... still, the 1.4 does offer a nicer sound and more power when you go for it. And, it's still more economical (at 6.5L/100km) than the 8.2L/100km (33mpg) that I managed to squeeze out of my 166 today!

-Alex

33mpg from an Alfa v6? That's pretty damned good. I used to get about that from my 2.0L 20V Fiat coupe on a run and about 18-22 around town, damned sight quicker than my 500 though...hehe

 

[alexGS]

33mpg from an Alfa v6? That's pretty damned good. I used to get about that from my 2.0L 20V Fiat coupe on a run and about 18-22 around town, damned sight quicker than my 500 though...hehe

I think for any car over 1500cc, taking town running out of the equation is the secret, as the open-road sees a larger engine running efficiently and the good aerodynamics help more than having a low vehicle mass. On a trip the difference between 33mpg in the 166 and 40mpg in the 500 is worth the penalty for the comfort and performance.

But around town which is about 80% of my driving, the difference between 19mpg in the 166 and 40mpg in the 500 feels much more significant, and it feels like the 500 could run rings around the 166. I really enjoy the low vehicle mass, manoeuvrability, and just the 'newness' of the 500 around town, where its fuel economy makes a noticeable benefit to the week's expenses.

The nice thing about the 1.2 or the 1.4 is that the fuel economy is very consistent... Imagine having a TwinAir (or any Turbo car) and knowing that you must refrain at all times from gratuitous bursts of POWERRR if you want to get the claimed economy figures... My Uno driven gently could get 44mpg and driven hard about half that! I think a 500 with a two-litre engine (or a 1.4 turbo ) would be the same.

-Alex