Brava and the dreaded red key

[Carl White]

My daughter's bought a Brava from a dealer and when she got it home she read the handbook and realised that she hadn't been given either the code cards or the red key. She immediately phoned the dealer and after a month of badgering he said that if she brought the car back he'd get his locksmith to rectify the problem. She didn't want to trust him with the car and she told him that she was taking him to the small claims court for £800 to get Fiat dealer to rectify the problem. What do you think?
Can cheaper ECU's/red keys be bought from scrapyards? By "locksmith" might he have meant a "mileage corrector" to re-programme the electronics. Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[brummie neil]

re : red key dilema

I have been worrying about this problem ever since i bought my bravo with no red key,
To cut a long story short i saw a fiat transponder key up for a bid on ebay , It said you could reprogramme using just the blue keys (no red needed), so i bid and won phoned the guy up who runs a company called
DD KEY PROGRAMMERS
sent my only blue key using recorded delivery and two days later my key and a new key came !!
so you dont need the red key to get other keys done

 

[Nigel]

Fight

Carl, fight for everything as youe daughter may have difficluty selling the car on afterwards. Yes, as B.N. mentioned you can get around it but you will loose £500 - £800 of the price when you sell.

I could never understand why Fiat persisted with this set up when Alfa dropped it in 1997!

I am sure there are a number of people here who can help you kick up a stink about it if required....we ain't a bad lot 'till we get kicked!

Nige
P.S. What bravo is it?

 

[Gaz]

How much did you pay for the car? Unless it was bought 'sold as seen' or the dealer mentioned that there was no red key during the sale then he has sold you an incomplete car and he must i) do everything he can to track down the red key from previous owner(s) - unless it has had loads of owners then this shouldn't be too hard - one of them must have it; ii) offer you money off the deal since the car is worth about £500 less without the key. God knows how his 'locksmith' is gonna sort you out with a new red key...he must be a genius or something!!! The dealer will probably come up with all sorts of excuses like 'bought in good faith, sold in good faith' etc but don't take any of this ****, any car dealer worth their salt knows that most newish Fiats should have a red master key so he would have known that when he sold you the car. Unlike a private sale, dealers can get really **** upon if they mess around like this so he WILL do everything he can to help you I'm sure.

 

[Nadine]

Re: Re: Brava and the dreaded red key

Ive just bought my Bravo and I dont have a red key either, I phoned the fiat dealers and they said that I couldnt just buy a red key and that all the locks would have to be changed and a new set of keys supplied - this would cost me the sum of £600 (I think this is what he meant by locksmith) I dont have that kinda money after just having bought the car and so at the moment I am running my little beast on one rather bent and twisted blue key I think I will be giving these DD guys a shout
Cheers folks

 

[Nick]

Timpsons

Timpsons, the high street shop can copy blue keys. You don't have to send your one and only blue key anywhere. You just walk in and they copy it there and then. Takes about 2 minutes and costs £20 (well mine did two years ago, and its still going strong
http://www.timpson.co.uk/ and search for the nearest store.
I suspect that by now other locksmith companies can do the same service. Code readers/programmers are freely available in Taiwan.

NOTE: If you break the key part off your one and only key all is not lost. The blue chip can still be read! If your blue key is looking a bit worse for wear, then get a normal key copied off it as soon as possible. Although it won't start the engine, it can still be used by Timpson to cut the key part of a new blue key. They still need the blue bit to program the electronics though. If you have the blue bit and a normal key you can still start your engine. Ask if you need to know how.

If you have a Brava 1.4 or a 2 litre you can get a nobbled ECU from here
http://www.atpelectronics.demon.co.uk/
which doesn't require the red key. CHeck with them first.

Otherwise its a big job to replace everything - locks, CODE ECU, engine ECU. There were rumours that exchange units were available but these have never been substantiated here. Anyone have any info?

 

[Nadine]

Re: Timpsons

Cheers Nick!!! My key is looking a bit past it. When I phoned Fiat they said I could get another blue key but that it wouldnt work in the ignition, o and that it would cost me £60 (sly b@st@r*s) Im heading into town tonight for a few things, will stop off at Timpsons on the way and let you know how I get on

Cheers again

 

[steve]

I was in the same exactly the position last year.

The motor organisation I belong to adviced me that the car is considered defective (fiats and alpha only) if it does not have the red key. Under the sale of goods act you are entitled to expect the dealer to sort the problem, EG;

find the original, compensate you to the cost of a new red key (approx £1000), Provide you with a new red key (involves new ECU, Code box and lock system) or accept the car back for a full refund.

Put it in writing, reference the sale of goods act and demand satisfaction. Keep badgering.
The longer you leave it the harder it will be to get a good result.

good luck

Mine was sorted in about a month.

 

[Carolyn]

The End Result

Dear all

I am the daughter of Carl White who purchased a Fiat Brava 1.6 elx without a red key. Although we badgered the dealer loads we got nowhere. As a result I ended up taking him through the Small Claims Court under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, which states that Goods must be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.

The dealer didn't respond to the court case and the court ruled in my favour. The dealer did then not pay the money (my quote for obtaining a new red key from Fiat was £1,085.38) and so we issued a warrant of execution to the dealer. It was then that we received a cheque for the full amount.

Although taking a dealer to court may not be suitable for everyone, it did work for me and I now have the codes to the car, one master red key and two blue keys.

Thanks for your advice guys.

 

[Dillinger]

Re: The End Result

Well done, nice to hear about people standing up for there rights and winning.
Having the red key will help when selling the car, most people (at least on here) who know about the red key wouldnt touch a Fiat with out one.
Dill. (also a Brava ELX owner)

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Re: The End Result

well done mate for taking that so could car dealer to court you have to stick up for your rights so well done mate give your self a pat on the back an i hope your daughter bought you a pint to say thanks lol but any way once again mate well done

 

[craig]

code cards

What's the story with these? When i bought my brava from REG "rip off) vardy, i got the red key but not the code cards. Thought i read somewhere that the dealer keeps these for insurance purposes. Sould i go back and demand these?
cheers

 

[nick_wheelho]

Re: code cards

i didnt get a code card - do i need this? - i got everything the dealer had for that car - he had just bought it from a peugeot garage after someone part x'd it - should i follow it up?
nick

 

[Martin]

Re: Re: Re: The End Result

one more win for us over the car dealer. well done.

Martin

 

[Richard]

Re: Re: code cards

Nick i also dont have the code card.

I had the red key and two blue keys when i bought mine.

Do i need this code card? if i have the red key, what does the code card do?

Thankyou

Richard

 

[Tom]

Re: Re: Re: code cards

The code card lets you start the car if the transponder system dies for some reason. You enter the code (by pressing the accelerator pedal lots of times) and the car will start.

 

[Gary F]

Re: Re: Re: Re: code cards

thing is I don't think you get given the code card in the UK because insurance companies weren't to pleased, other countries do but not here, you should still have a code card for the radio codes though, I think that's what it says in the manual

Gaz

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: code cards

Thats right - you didn't get a code card in the UK, except for the radio.

I don't think its any big deal. The set of circumstances when the code card would be of any use is very small.

The lack of a red key is more significant, but even that is only absolutely required if you need to program new Fiat sourced keys into the system. As previously posted, blue keys can be cloned in many places, such as high street key cutters (eg Timpsons). You do run into problems if you lose all your blue keys. Then the red key is useful - but if you are the sort of person that loses both your blue keys then you are most likely eventually going to lose the red key as well, as you will use it like a blue key because you havn't got time to go to Fiat, its too expensive, I forgot etc.

To be safe, everyone with one blue key should get it cloned immediately. Then you will be truly unlucky if you ever have a fault that needs the red key. But if you havn't got a red key, you will still have to accept a lower price when you come to sell the car on.

Won't be long before perfectly good cars are worthless because of the cost of replacing the red key. If a car is worth £800 in good nick, but has no red key, then you should give it away, as the replacement key will cost about that!

Nick

 

[Allan Wall]

re

I've got a spare red key, lol, since i've got a different ecu my red keys useless now! lol

solves some problems if i'd ever lost it!

 

[steve]

Without the red key the car is considered defective under the sale of goods act. Fiats and alphas are the only car (I believe) that comes under this because it costs so much to replace the key).

If the dealer can not remedy the situation to a resonable degree, as previously listed (also a complete new ECU/Lock system) then you are entitled to return the car for a full refund. I suggest you dont use it the mean time tho.

good luck