Technical Bilstein B14s - Ordered

[ahmett]

Righto, after much fiddling and other hassles, the beast has been dropped off this morning. As I write this she's probably being put on the hoist. All going to plan I'm told that I'll be able to collect her tonight after work.

I fully anticipate the call mid morning where they tell me they've found a black hole or nuclear meltdown or some other electric/mechanical malady that will cost millions to fix and only be possible with the ordering of unobtanium parts that are on backorder for a millenia. It's usually the way with such things.

Still, the outlook is positive and all going well I'll post some initial observations when I get home tonight.

Once during my first service of my 2nd hand Audi A2 the dealer rang me and said hello, do you have a moment? Because we have a lot to cover. hahah! he had said suspension, waterpump/timing belt, brakes, normal service, lightbulbs, and probably other things! In the end i did half of them and did some more after i drove it to greece so in the end i sold the car in a better condition than i bought it! Oh well, it was my first car so it was a learning experience and it never broke down on me!

 

[jnoiles]

Once during my first service of my 2nd hand Audi A2 the dealer rang me and said hello, do you have a moment? Because we have a lot to cover.

Thankfully the guy doing it (Dene from Goldenwheel) is a wheels/tyres/suspension specialist and I've known him for ages. So he won't pull any dealer-type nonsense. But there's always that niggling doubt that I've missed something in my post 'ring investigations that will need replacing. Cars. Love/Hate.

 

[loveshandbags]

Thankfully the guy doing it (Dene from Goldenwheel) is a wheels/tyres/suspension specialist and I've known him for ages. So he won't pull any dealer-type nonsense. But there's always that niggling doubt that I've missed something in my post 'ring investigations that will need replacing. Cars. Love/Hate.

Sounds like it's in 'good hands' and will most likely get the proper alignment treatment. Are you going to go for a standard setup or are you going to do some 'slight adjustments' for the track ?

 

[jnoiles]

For now its getting standard geometry with 30mm drop front and rear. Droplinks adjusted to keep the ARB at the correct angle and we'll go from there. I think I'll probably fiddle with it a few times to find the optimum and then be done with it. I was pretty happy with what I had before. I'm hoping I can replicate most of that feel with maybe a little better compliance from shocks and springs designed to work with each other.

 

[RobW]

worth getting eibach camber bolts and adjusting to 1°

 

[jnoiles]

worth getting eibach camber bolts and adjusting to 1°

Too late, already being worked on. To be honest, I'm not that fussed by more camber. She went alright around the 'ring last month

 

[loveshandbags]

worth getting eibach camber bolts and adjusting to 1°

Too late, already being worked on. To be honest, I'm not that fussed by more camber. She went alright around the 'ring last month

If you're dropping the 500 by 30mm I would expect that the camber will increase which would cause more wear on the inside of the tyres.

Did a bit of googling and there's a lot of science in the topic. IIRC the camber on the A500 is more positive than the F500 and an issue with the MiTo 155TB & the A500 is wear on the inside of the front tyres which is more pronounced with lower profile tyres.
Doing a search these turned up but I would imagine they could be sourced locally. Honda guys are really into it and ebay has a guide along with one from europerformance.

Is it possible to adjust the camber on a 'dropped' 500 without the need for camber bolts ?

 

[jnoiles]

Is it possible to adjust the camber on a 'dropped' 500 without the need for camber bolts ?

No, short of ovalling the holes the shock bolts to with a file. Which is a bad idea. Or turning around your top mounts so they don't sit correctly in the recesses which gives you 1.5 deg of negative camber. Neither of these are good long term plans.

But enough of this camber craziness. On to the coilover fun:

First up, a picture for Alex showing the 4 bolts you need to remove to remove the whole rear hub/carrier/brake assembly

This is rear shock. Look closely at the bolt and the rubber bush

When we unbolted the rear shock this happened

And this would be the cause of the other clonk coming from the rear

Grotty old front suspension

Shiny new from suspension

Tops greased up to stop rust, as were all exposed threads by the time we were done

Rear installed

The remains

Initial impressions are that its exactly what I wanted. She's as good in corners as before but feels (unsurprisingly) much tighter and more solid all around. The damping and the springs feel like they're working in harmony and the compliance is night and day. 1000% better than previously, even when the suspension was new. Torque steer is also reduced which is an unexpected bonus. Flooring it in low gear around a corner used to be a tad grabby but that seems to have gone. I've only driven her 4 miles so far. I have a motorway session and a backlanes bit of fun on the way home tonight. I'll report back tomorrow with more.

Forgot to snap a ride heigh pic but its minus 30mm ride height. I thought about dropping her a tad lower, she feels a bit high but then I've become used to it being lower because of the shagged mounts etc. So I'll drive it for a the rest of this weeks commute to see what it's like before doing any fiddling.

 

[SteveTDCi]

Those rears looked knackered big style. I'd be interested in the ride quality and pictures of the drop

 

[alexh365]

Awesome! Thanks for the Pic...that looks pretty simple. Im investigating whether the rear setup is actually the same as PuntoMk2HGT aswell. The discs and calipers and guards have the same EPER part number, just need to work out how to find the "Axel" bit...

Quite looking forward to seeing a ride height picture. Are you as comfortable over bumps as with the standard kit?

 

[jnoiles]

thread resurrection. Sorry for the delays, I've been distracting myself with a Lotus Elise. This week the rain has pushed me back into the 500. And I've remembered why I can't sell her. Too much fun.

Bilstein update. I have about 1500 miles on her now with the bilsteins. My impressions are that the ride compliance has improved. Bear in mind that I previously had lowering springs and knackered OEM dampers so anything was going to be an improvement in that area. But it feels much better able to react to short sharp bumps.

Larger bumps, speedbumps etc it feels mostly the same as with my previous config., ie crashy and bouncy.

When you really push it hard in a corner the same tight flat cornering feel exists as before but you almost have to push through a layer of ride compliance to get to it. It's weird. More a mental re-calibration than anything else. Previously the suspension was rock hard all the time and so there was no issue just planting it. And yes, I realise I'm probably the only person who fits bilsteins and then complains that they're a bit soft.

I strongly suspect that the drop links are keeping things in much more control as well. Being adjustable I'm able to adjust the bar properly to match the ride height so you can feel it working as it should.

The tail feels a little bit more flighty than it used to be. I've had a couple of tail out moments in the last week. I used to have to really try to make that happen before and it seems easier to provoke now.

If anyone is around Bedford Autodrome on the 3rd nov I'm happy to take them out for a passenger ride to feel the difference for themselves

 

[ahmett]

My suspension is getting really rubbish now at around 40k (65000 km). It makes noises and clunks and really makes me seasick!
I think its time for some blisteins = )
I will let you guys know if I order some.

 

[The Twins]

My suspension is getting really rubbish now at around 40k (65000 km). It makes noises and clunks and really makes me seasick!
I think its time for some blisteins = )
I will let you guys know if I order some.

Me too... Pity there isn't a 'group buy' special offer on B14 kit from a trader on here ; )

 

[bgunn]

I plan to get some for mine as soon as I've finished this Audi..

 

[rallycinq]

My kit arrived a couple of weeks ago, got the rears only on this morning.

Fronts on Tuesday evening, then alignment on Wednesday and hopefully it will be warm enough to finally take the winter wheels off and get back to the 16s.

Cheers

D

 

[rallycinq]

All fitted including 16s. Tracking tomorrow and run in the new tyres before leaning on them.

I think you might have overthought the drop links.

1) you will have changed the roll stiffness as the flex of the original links is taken into account

and

2) the mounting lugs are in a different place on the billies to allow for the drop

Cheers

D

 

[The Twins]

All fitted including 16s. Tracking tomorrow and run in the new tyres before leaning on them.

I think you might have overthought the drop links.

1) you will have changed the roll stiffness as the flex of the original links is taken into account

and

2) the mounting lugs are in a different place on the billies to allow for the drop

Cheers

D

So standard length drop links are ok?

 

[rallycinq]

So standard length drop links are ok?

I would say so. The ARB doesn't need to be in any particular orientation its acting against itself (providing it doesn't foul on anything)

The roll stiffness will be defined by not just the ARB but the drop links too. Putting stiffer drop links on will stiffen the roll, but only at the front.

I noticed the different position as I was fitting it one side at a time and when I went to fit the first side the drop link wouldn't line up as it was still attached to the standard strut on the offside.

Having disconnected it to get it to fit the first new strut, it then lined up perfectly when I had the second new strut on.

Cheers

D

 

[The Twins]

I would say so. The ARB doesn't need to be in any particular orientation its acting against itself (providing it doesn't foul on anything)

The roll stiffness will be defined by not just the ARB but the drop links too. Putting stiffer drop links on will stiffen the roll, but only at the front.

I noticed the different position as I was fitting it one side at a time and when I went to fit the first side the drop link wouldn't line up as it was still attached to the standard strut on the offside.

Having disconnected it to get it to fit the first new strut, it then lined up perfectly when I had the second new strut on.

Cheers

D

Great to hear. That will save an extra job when I get around to getting B14 kit.
Thanks : )

 

[bgunn]

1) you will have changed the roll stiffness as the flex of the original links is taken into account

The flex of the original links will almost certainly not have been taken into account, as it's doing so in an uncontrolled way.

They won't be flexing by any meaningful amount either, otherwise they'd break.