General Better in the flesh

[Ulpian]

Nah, taxis are Skodas. In Rome taxis are often Multiplas though, because they are so sensible

 

[Jazzist]

In Turkey they are ALL Doblos, thousands of them!

 

[Super Uwe]

Mine's at status 30!

I thought the stick was low too, but was actually perfectly fine when I drove one - I must have long arms luckily.

If you recline the rear seats at back most position 6 footers miss the skydome surround - not ideal I guess so don't buy lounge if you're buying as a private hire car! Children, ocassional adults and those of average height will be fine. The SkyDome effect is lovely in this car and worth the ergonomics IMO. Were the LHD in showrooms production cars?

Yeah, I agree with you there in the sense that I'd need to actually test drive the car first to see how it felt. Just my instinctive reaction though, I'd always driven all sorts of hire cars before we got our 500 in 2009, none of which had a raised gearstick. So it obviously wasn't a problem then.

But I guess when you are used to having something so convenient, it makes it hard to accept something different (albeit a feature that is in most cars it has to be said!).

Ulpian - I never did get to put the rear seats all the way back, my little boy who's 18 months was clambering all over the demo car having great fun, so was keeping a close eye! But overall though I didn't notice any major issue with headroom, however I'd certainly have a closer look next time.

 

[Jazzist]

Its only if you get the glass roof and only in the back unless seats back and reclined. I guess if you have 2 x 6' teenagers or are a taxi it could be a problem. Bags of headroom in the front (unlike eg Qashqai which has no headroom at all (high off ground but car not very tall...) - how are they so popular they look chunky but are v old fashioned (typical of jap interiors) and small inside?) or in back without glass.

 

[Ulpian]

In Turkey they are ALL Doblos, thousands of them!

Because all Doblos are built in Turkey

Its only if you get the glass roof and only in the back unless seats back and reclined. I guess if you have 2 x 6' teenagers or are a taxi it could be a problem.

Well, yes, but practically all teenagers are over 6' these days. I'm only 6' myself, and that's now pretty much average height. You can just manage to avoid the head compression if you move the rear seats forwards and recline them a little, so compromising leg room and comfort, but that rather defeats the point. For myself I'd never have a glass roof so it wouldn't be an issue, but it does mean the 500L with a glass roof is compromised when carrying four contemporary full sized adults.

I'd always driven all sorts of hire cars before we got our 500 in 2009, none of which had a raised gearstick. So it obviously wasn't a problem then.

It's a problem when the seats are set high and the car offers the ergonomically superior sit-up-and -beg seating position - like many Fiats do. In this case the gear lever and the handbrake need to be higher set too. The traditional 'sporty', sitting close to the floor with the legs stuck out in front, seating position, which was influenced by motor racing and manufacturers' desire to make their models appear 'sporty' after the war is damned uncomfortable for me and after ten minutes in an ordinary car I want to get out and stretch. No seat I have found in this type of car offers support under my legs and a comfortable riding position. No wonder so many drivers get back ache. But raise the seat and fail to match this with adequately lifted major controls and you still have a problem.

Falling in and out of a car with a raised seat is a joy after the struggle to get up, practically from ground level, onto the curb from a conventional car. Add the long doors two door cars have and you get a really nightmarish ingress and egress situation. Most people are unaware of this because it's all they are used to. However, when people get in my 'van' they are always surprised at how comfortable it is and how easy it is to get in and out. Funny that

It's a bit like the old days when prejudices told Brits that 'Europe', as they called it - as if Britain somehow wasn't part of Europe - was dirty and the food was funny, horrible even. And then when they ventured across the channel and discovered that actually abroad is cleaner than Britain, better organised and that the food is better - much - and that the people are smarter and politer and are living in much more magnificent cities, that they began to have their delusions shattered.

And yes, the Qashqai isn't particuarly roomy inside, and the Juke is even worse, but they are well made and stylish and have cut out a big niche in the market. I hear people say they'd love to have a Qashqai and when you hear that, often, you realise how clever Nissan has been and why the Qashqai is in the top ten best sellers list.

Fiat has the 500 there of course, and I've just realised that three of my colleagues, never Fiat owners before, now have these. So they have 'crossed the channel' so to speak, ventured into a Fiat showroom and and probably seen the 500L! Not many people in the past would have even looked at Fiats, so strong were the prejudices against them, so the 500 has been a godsend.

Back to the 500L: It woud take real engineering work to make the 500L ergonomically perfect and Fiat won't bother, but for many people the oversights in the design won't matter and anyway it is more comfortable than most.

Funnily enough I watched a very interesting test of it on YouTube. The tester wasn't over impressed, but he was clever. He noted the radio aerial at the back of the high roof and asked how a smaller person was expected to remove it to take the car through the carwash without clambering up the car and getting filthy. "Good luck!" he said. I laughed because this is just the sort of practical consideration designers so often overlook. My old Doblo had grab handles for both front seats, the new one only for the passenger, so I have to pull myself up on that side to reach the aerial before taking the car through the washer. This is where an integrated aerial would be useful, but nobody in the design studio thought about it....



And that's cars. None is perfect, we just have to take what suits us best

 

[Murano16v]

There you go then!

Thank goodness for a new car that isn't pointy and designed to look like an Aston Martin. Okay, it's designed to look like a 500, a little

I have noticed casual visitors to the Fiat showroom who come to look at the 500s (of course) taking a quizzical and surprised look at the L and, on one occasison, murmering to themselves that it looked 'good' and 'interesting'.

Let's face it, Vauxhalls or Fords look pretty similar, and anyhting Korean or Japanese has to have the badge read to know what it is these days. And now that the Toyota and Mazda badges look so similar even I often don't know what a car is, even close up

Buying a Fiat means getting a car that can be spotted half a mile away. Perhaps people are craving some form of individuality?

I reckon that in a world where so many people lead identikit lives, eating in identical chain restaurants, going on identical package holidays, shopping in identical supermarkets, living in identical Wimpoid houses crammed into identical cramped cul-de-sacian estates, and with identikit furniture with square sofas, laminate floors, heavy boxy furniture, a 'feature' wall with either maroon or turquoise chrysanthemum wallpaper on the 'feature' wall, and a bunch of dead twigs stuck in a vase next to the big TV, then a car that isn't another Ford or VW or Astra or Korapanese makes them feel a bit chirpier.

And it's a good car, so no apologies needed

Wow, reminds me of the title of Blur's album " Modern life is Rubbish".

But agree with a lot of what you have to say, often though there is not a lot of choice about where we shop these days. Oh and you forgot to mention the dreaded influence of "X" Factor. I think it is sometimes thought by the masses that if you choose to drive a Fiat ( or Alfa in my case ) that you have taken a bit of a risk. A misconception of course.
A

 

[Ulpian]

:yeahthat:

I'd forgotten the X Factor. But we are forced into an advertising led consumerist world where real choice becomes more limited.

Funnily enough I think modern life can be pretty good, but I am huglely critical of everything, including myself, so I won't let Fiat off the hook when they screw up

But I actually like the 500L a lot, and I think a great part of that attraction comes from the fact that it looks sensible and a bit wacky at the same time. Big inside, not too big outside. Plus wonderful colour and textures that lift the spirit.

Unfavourable comparisons witht the Mini range don't work on me, because I've driven Minis

And I've driven Fiats

 

[Jazzist]

I found you actually had to have the rear seats all the way back and fully reclined to miss the skydome surround (good for sleeping not for looking where you're going!).

If you move them forwards and recline you are at the shortest headroom position, if you move them forwards and don't recline your head is half into the greater space where the glass is and half on that surround (least space) if you sit with your head on the headrest.

Very much nitpicking compared to the Cashcow (which is very popular, so as you say most people don't sweat the details we do?) - very inefficient use of space and no headroom in the drivers seat (unless you're of average height!). When it was launched probably quite new and fresh, looks old fashioned to me now. I think they've marketed the Cashcow absolutely beautifully - can't argue with that!

Average height in the UK is definitely well under 6' and nearer 5' for ladies (for over 16s.. 5'9" men, 5'3" ladies)!

The guy complaining about reaching the antenna.. bit of a short arse (IIRC from watching that a couple of weeks ago he had around 2' headroom in the back ); plus who puts a brand new car through a car wash?

 

[Jazzist]

Wonder why they didn't fit the high gearstick?

Possibly gives you more room in that area of the dash, US spec cupholders etc.?

Gear change was fine for me.

Handbrake will take some getting used to, it's just weird and seems pointless (why redesign the handbrake, what next cylindrical pedals?).

 

[Jazzist]

I really liked the Doblo taxis in Turkey.

Makes you wonder why there are NONE in the UK [as taxis].

FIAT becoming more fashionable in the UK these days so maybe in the future.

 

[Jazzist]

Let's face it, Vauxhalls or Fords look pretty similar, and anyhting Korean or Japanese has to have the badge read to know what it is these days. And now that the Toyota and Mazda badges look so similar even I often don't know what a car is, even close up

I was keen on getting a Mazda CX5 for a while but decided it was to expensive (>£23k IIRC) and had no advantages for me over cheaper cars. I kept thinking I'd seen one on the road but only when very up close realising I'd seen a Mitsubishi ASX (prefer both of these to the Cashcow). So, totally agree that lots of cars are really similar.

Buying a Fiat means getting a car that can be spotted half a mile away. Perhaps people are craving some form of individuality?

You are right. I always like buying my own new car made to my own spec. I don't give a monkeys what the Joneses think. A badge means nothing to me like it seems to everyone else who has to have a VW, FIAT is a premium brand to me. I want it to look like my car and not like everyone elses, this makes me chirpy. I could not even consider things like a Golf or Cashcow. E.g. I liked the ASX (not many around) but would have had to have gone for that lovely bright light blue / aqua metallic they come in (shame about the 8000 miles service intervals - yes 8000 miles!)

 

[Ulpian]

Average height in the UK is definitely well under 6' and nearer 5' for ladies (for over 16s.. 5'9" men, 5'3" ladies)!

Not amongst my friends it isn't. I'm 6' and I'm one of the shortest people I know. Yes, there are lots of men under 6', but practically all the teenage boys I know are between 6' and 6'6". When I was a teenager over forty years ago the male average height was 5'9", so I suspect the figures haven't kept up with reality. Rather like clothes manufacturers that are sometimes still cutting to standardised human frames that have long since become obsolete. Kids are enormous now, and even for girls 6' isn't freakish any more.

plus who puts a brand new car through a car wash?

Me!

Wonder why they didn't fit the high gearstick?

Possibly gives you more room in that area of the dash, US spec cupholders etc.?

Somebody told me that as it is based on the Punto chassis that had something to do with it...?...maybe? I'd have thought it was more likely that the Fiat engineers are mostly not built to north European specifications and like to sit buried in their cars peering through the steering wheel, like the little man in the video. Not me though :devil:

I really liked the Doblo taxis in Turkey.

Makes you wonder why there are NONE in the UK [as taxis].

They are expensive and I suspect the sliding rear doors are problematic. Most people are not used to them and get confused when trying to manipulate the handles. It's easy when you know the technique, but for a drunk newby on a Saturday morning a Skoda is a more familiar place to throw up

And yes, Fiats have something about them that no other make can quite manage. A good something too.

 

[Jazzist]

Another quick thought about the gear change..

You had to be Geoff Capes to change gear in the Bravo once the linkages were over 2 weeks old (had them changed under warranty and were fine again for ~2 weeks..). You just got used to almost slapping it hard (2nd to 3rd was almost a punch..) and it was useable I suppose. No it wasn't just my Bravo, they were all like that (I drove several). Overall I did love the car though, stylish, well built, reliable and fab warranty (better than Hyundai's on SWMBO's i20, that warranty cover is no way as good as advertised).

The Panda 100HP had a beautiful change that was good as SWMBO's i20 (which you can almost flick into gear it's so smooth) but with a lovely stick position.

I do miss the 100HP, grip was so good you saved fuel, didn't have to slow down for 99% of bends. Probably why SWMBO hated it and I got the Bravo to appease Got to be the worst car ever (apart from BMWs ) on snow with the factory fitted Good Year F1s and wide wheels (big contact patch, not much weight) though.

Old fart now so probably couldn't deal with the ROCK SOLID shocks again though, looking back with rose tinted glasses

The 500L is much slicker changing than the Bravo ever was, probably not as good as the Panda though.

 

[Ulpian]

My Doblo is sticky sometimes into first. The Bravo I looked at was awful and the 500L in the showroom, with the same engine as mine and six speeds feels very similar to the Doblo - but it is probably better on the move. Now these are all built on modified versions of the same floorpan, so I wonder if the linkages are related?

I did take out a Panda Sporting, because the idea of it appealed, but I need a car with suspension and it had none! I mean, none. It was the worst riding car I've ever driven. The new Panda on the other hand rides beautifully, far better than the cooking versions of the last one, and the gearchange is a delight. I'll bet the Sporting version to come has a good ride, even if it must be firmer.

I'd love to drive the 500L because it is on my next car list. Last car too probably - so a good reason to wait until they've had a few years to sort the glitches.

 

[Ulpian]

I sat in UK one today and it was a really nice place to be. One of the more basic, with steel wheels, though you wouldn't know by looking, and with the 1.4 petrol engine And plenty of headroom without the glass roof.

But a beautiful interior, with red highlights on the seats, dash and doors. What a differnece those make.

And there was enough room for my feet. But...... the gearlever really is set too low. When I set the driver's seat low, to see if that would help, I had to push the seat away from the pedals, obviously, and the gearlever was STILL too low, and now too far away as well.

So unless you are long in the body you won't be able to get totally comfortable in it.

But lovely nonetheless.

 

[SteveTDCi]

Just had a quick look at some, a red and a white one and I have to say I'm impressed they look quite nice in real life

 

[Jazzist]

Mine's now in the UK, status 40

 

[babbo_umbro]

Quite a few on the road in central Italy now, so - to be fair - they really do seem to be selling, but they are grotesque - Quasimodo has unnatural relationship with Fiat Punto.

 

[homeward]

Quasimodo has unnatural relationship with Fiat Punto.

That phrase has made my day...!

 

[simrae]

Have been very happy with our 500L so far. We went for the 1.4 Petrol, as it's never going to cover enough miles to justify the £1500 premium the smaller diesel or twin-air demand. And while it's not exactly a powerhouse, it's perfectly happy in most situations.

I am impressed with the sense of solidity (not something you always associate with Fiat), it feels well put together - the doors shut with a reassuring thunk, and nothing rattles.

The suspension seems well set-up for the poor state of UK roads, absorbing bumps smoothly and quietly. Body roll was always going to be present in a vehicle this tall (and it is very tall!), but driven with a modicum of restraint, all is good!

The seats are generally comfortable, perhaps a slightly longer cushion would have been nice, but are perfectly nice.

One thing I must mention that amazes and bugs me at the same time is the positioning of the speedometer/rev counter cluster. I'm 6'01", and with my seat in it's lowest position, and the steering raised to it highest position, I still struggle to see the whole of the speedo (50-70mph get partially hidden by the wheel rim). It's not a serious problem, once you become familiar with it - just amazing that such a glaring issue was not spotted during the design process. The rest of the controls and instrumentation are fine.

I love gadgets, and there are quite a few on the 500L. One of my favourites is the speed limiter (part of the cruise-control function) - something that should be on all cars! It's simple to use, can be set to any speed, and switched on or off as required. It's just great to know that (if you remember to set it) the chance of getting caught accidentally speeding becomes a virtual impossibility.

I got the free upgrade to 17" alloys and Beats Audio. Both very much appreciated - I think the car needs big wheels, and the audio is an improvement over the usual fair in this price range.

Fuel economy? Mmm, well it's early days - I've only done just over 800 miles, but the best I've seen is 42 mpg on a journey consisting of mainly motorway and A roads. My short commute to work through town (typically averaging 12mph!) results in low 30's, but as these are only 2 mile journeys, it's not really a problem (and I can always jump on the bike if I'm feeling really guilty!). We're heading for a week in Scotland in a couple of days, which will give us a more complete picture. In fact looking at the official figures, we're getting pretty much what they quote.

So all in all, I'm very happy. Yes, it doesn't have the character of my dearly missed 500 Twin-Air, but put simply, the dog didn't fit in that (and neither did the tent and a weeks worth of kit!) - what it does have is a huge dose of practicality and a definite 'look', and in this world a bland boxes, this is a pleasant change!