General Best price for a low mileage service?

[RobinPJ]

You having a laugh, or just taking the ****?
Edit. No you are just stupid.

Wow - this is the first time I have seen the "five dislikes and your post disappears" thing happen - and for me. I wouldn't even have seen it if it hadn't been mentioned by John. I now have a warm glow.

Wellfan, your edit was unnecessary - you got it right first time. I was teasing you about your incorret assumption (geddit?) about which engine needs more oil.

I'm sorry if you didn't realise it was a joke, or at least meant in a friendly light-hearted way. I generally don't try to upset people (apart from Ahmett obviously).

Robin

PS Your edit was right though all the same. According to my wife anyway.

 

[ahmett]

Wow - this is the first time I have seen the "five dislikes and your post disappears" thing happen - and for me. I wouldn't even have seen it if it hadn't been mentioned by John. I now have a warm glow.

Wellfan, your edit was unnecessary - you got it right first time. I was teasing you about your incorret assumption (geddit?) about which engine needs more oil.

I'm sorry if you didn't realise it was a joke, or at least meant in a friendly light-hearted way. I generally don't try to upset people (apart from Ahmett obviously).

Robin

PS Your edit was right though all the same. According to my wife anyway.

Who said you upset me robin?

 

[Venters]

Who said you upset me robin?

Nobody. He just tries too. :devil:

 

[RobinPJ]

Exactly. Actually, Ahmett, I know you are a good guy who has strong opinions and who is ok if other people pull you up on them.

God I am in a good mood today. Roll on the weekend.

 

[bgunn]

I would be inclined to give it to fastfit or a VAT registered garage giving them the oil & filter so that you have a proper receipt to back up your records. Also the oil is disposed off properly.

I actually take some exception to that, I dispose of my used oil using a council recycling depot, so know exactly where my 'old' oil is going.... Do not think that a DIY oil change is considered any 'less' than a garage done job. I might not have ramps to put my car up on, but I know exactly what it needs to ensure a good job is done.

 

[poggy]

We are comparing service intervals which have been around long before improvements in oils, engine tolerances etc.

There is no evidence to suggest that having a 18k oil service will realistically reduce the normal service life of the engine. The comment that it "it's done to keep service costs low to sell cars" is only because you believe it should sooner based on historical service times, not because failures have occurred.

If you think about it, cars used to need a rebuild before 100k miles and had oil changes every 6k miles. Advances are made all the time with oil, spark plugs etc.

 

[jrkitching]

There is no evidence to suggest that having a 18k oil service will realistically reduce the normal service life of the engine.

There is also no evidence to suggest that only changing the oil every 18k will not reduce the service life of the engine.

It is worth remembering that 18k service intervals for the FIRE & TA engines were only introduced within the last 4 years and we don't have any real-world data about how this will affect the long term life of these engines.

We are comparing service intervals which have been around long before improvements in oils, engine tolerances etc.

The core of the 1.2 engine is the same technology used when oil service intervals were 6000 miles. The 0.9 TA is turbocharged, and there is a shedload of evidence to suggest that turbocharged engines will be prematurely damaged if their lubrication is not up to scratch.

At the end of the day, all that any of us here can do is express their opinion - and my opinion is that changing the oil more frequently than recommended could prevent some expensive bills in the car's later life.

I know that I am not alone in this recommendation - there are plenty of knowledgeable folk here who have chosen to do the same.

Advances are made all the time with ... ...spark plugs

and FIAT have taken great care to ensure that none of these have been used in the 500 engines .

 

[poggy]

I am not saying don't do it, all I am saying is that we have to be careful what we base the decision on as things have moved on from when the 6k, 9k or 12k services were specified.

There is lot's of data from endurance testing which all manufactures use to calculate service intervals, just because it used to be sooner on Fire engines doesn't mean it was really necessary. They have a lot of wear feedback on those engines, so may have been able to determine from that that it simply wasn't required.

As I say I am not saying don't do it, but just don't look at previous intervals as the main guide for doing so. Sure the engine is going to wear, but you have to look at it inline with the rest of the car which is also wearing.

 

[jrkitching]

I am not saying don't do it, all I am saying is that we have to be careful what we base the decision on as things have moved on from when the 6k, 9k or 12k services were specified.

As I say I am not saying don't do it, but just don't look at previous intervals as the main guide for doing so. Sure the engine is going to wear, but you have to look at it inline with the rest of the car which is also wearing.

That is a fair point and the choice also depends on how much it costs you. I paid about £95 for enough oil & filters to do 4 oil changes; I'd probably have to have topped the car up at 8k if I wasn't changing the oil, so you can knock about £40 off that for the oil I've saved, meaning each extra change costs me about £15. I might make a different choice if I had to fork out £100 a time.

 

[loveshandbags]

Also doing an interim service as a DIY e.g. between the dealer services of 18K, 36K, etc. I would be inclined to give it to fastfit or a VAT registered garage giving them the oil & filter so that you have a proper receipt to back up your records. Also the oil is disposed off properly.

I actually take some exception to that, I dispose of my used oil using a council recycling depot, so know exactly where my 'old' oil is going.... Do not think that a DIY oil change is considered any 'less' than a garage done job. I might not have ramps to put my car up on, but I know exactly what it needs to ensure a good job is done.

A posting on the FF is not a PM so you might be over-reading that.

Also from a warranty point of view having a oil change carried out by a VAT registered car or a dealer is better than a DIY (although I do change the oil myself in the Marea). Manufacturers have changed their service intervals on oil and cambelt changes. A number of Alfa owners would have learned that the 'hard' way and in the case of the A500 it had their oil service interval reduced from 12K to 9K and the viscosity of the oil changed from 5w40 to 10w50. A DIY might have missed that since the manual would have been out of date. If there was a warranty claim on say the engine you might be on thin ice if it had not been serviced to the revised schedules.
If addition it's highly probably that you have a mechanical related qualification which would mean that you would be deemed competent. Whilst I have none so I will not 'fall' into the same category.

 

[loveshandbags]

We are comparing service intervals which have been around long before improvements in oils, engine tolerances etc.

There is no evidence to suggest that having a 18k oil service will realistically reduce the normal service life of the engine. The comment that it "it's done to keep service costs low to sell cars" is only because you believe it should sooner based on historical service times, not because failures have occurred.

If you think about it, cars used to need a rebuild before 100k miles and had oil changes every 6k miles. Advances are made all the time with oil, spark plugs etc.

These 'advances' in oil technology and the balance between economy and wear and tear do not go 'hand in hand' and are highlighted here.

I did 'have a good look' before at this and the thread is here. Unfortunately the link to the original study is 'gone' but the only anomoly that was in it was the oil got thicker before it got thinner - so the study was probably suspect. I got the impression that changing oil 'too early' is not worthwhile and 8K miles was the optimum point providing you're not tracking the car.

This report (Click here - it's a PDF) was an 'eye-opener' and any illusions that I had about how good Mobile 1 was shattered. The limiting factor in getting 'long life' oil is the requirement of ACEA C3 for the 500 and that is to do with the CAT (from a conversation with opie). Mobile do a 'long life' oil but it needs a special filter but it's not suitable for the 500.

Aside for getting the 'best oil' for long service intervals in the 'hope' of minimal scarring there is the issue with the build up of contaminants which I would imagine cannot be 'handled' by the filter.

The other point about wear overall on the car e.g. in relation to gearbox & suspension components - the small engines in the 500 need to be performing at their best to deliver the economy and power needed. A bigger cc engine is less taxed and will naturally last longer.

 

[bgunn]

A posting on the FF is not a PM so you might be over-reading that.

No offence (and I love that term, as it always means the opposite), but that's up to the person who reads the comment, not the one who writes it.

Also from a warranty point of view having a oil change carried out by a VAT registered car or a dealer is better than a DIY (although I do change the oil myself in the Marea). Manufacturers have changed their service intervals on oil and cambelt changes. A number of Alfa owners would have learned that the 'hard' way and in the case of the A500 it had their oil service interval reduced from 12K to 9K and the viscosity of the oil changed from 5w40 to 10w50. A DIY might have missed that since the manual would have been out of date. If there was a warranty claim on say the engine you might be on thin ice if it had not been serviced to the revised schedules.
If addition it's highly probably that you have a mechanical related qualification which would mean that you would be deemed competent. Whilst I have none so I will not 'fall' into the same category.

You're talking rather generally here though; a DIY who is capable of researching the current standards an OEM uses (for example, someone who uses this forum) who is a skilled amateur mechanic is perfectly capable of executing a better job of an oil change than the workshop junior who is the one usually given the job in dealerships.

I'd like to see FIAT try the whole "you're on thin ice" on with me considering I used the same parts they will, and didn't overfill my car with oil like a lot of dealership 'technicians' appear to have done and has been reported on here. My car goes in for its first service tomorrow, and I know I'll be lifting the bonnet and checking the oil level before I leave when it's done.

 

[frupi]

I don't actually get how anyone, especially a skilled technician at a garage, can 'overfill' an engine with oil? I understand how someone could do it just 'topping up' but this can be negated merely by being careful.

When I've carried out oil changes on any of the cars I've owned, I merely drain oil out of the sump (dipstick out, oil filler cap off etc) and on replacement of sump plug and filter, I measure out the exact amount of oil required for the engine as stated in the handbook (or Haynes manual) into a measuring jug and refill the engine. I wait 10 minutes check for leaks start the engine to move the oil around, switch off, wait 15 minutes and hey presto! the oil level is exactly correct on the dipstick. Never had a problem with this method. Now just exactly how hard can that be? Or am I missing something crucial here?

 

[dave]

Or am I missing something crucial here?

yeah tech don't do it the tea boy does

 

[bgunn]

I don't actually get how anyone, especially a skilled technician at a garage, can 'overfill' an engine with oil? I understand how someone could do it just 'topping up' but this can be negated merely by being careful.

When I've carried out oil changes on any of the cars I've owned, I merely drain oil out of the sump (dipstick out, oil filler cap off etc) and on replacement of sump plug and filter, I measure out the exact amount of oil required for the engine as stated in the handbook (or Haynes manual) into a measuring jug and refill the engine. I wait 10 minutes check for leaks start the engine to move the oil around, switch off, wait 15 minutes and hey presto! the oil level is exactly correct on the dipstick. Never had a problem with this method. Now just exactly how hard can that be? Or am I missing something crucial here?

I think you're missing one thing here: 'Skilled'. In my experience, the people given the task to change oil in dealerships are often anything but that.

 

[T14086]

I love topics like these.....one day I might just write a book on the motor trade, now that would be a good read

 

[bgunn]

I love topics like these.....one day I might just write a book on the motor trade, now that would be a good read

Big book

 

[T14086]

Big book

with pictures

 

[david baxter]

nowt wrong with servicing the car early im a fiat technician and my Bravo gets a oil and filter every 6 months with a fuel and air filter annually.

 

[frupi]

nowt wrong with servicing the car early im a fiat technician and my Bravo gets a oil and filter every 6 months with a fuel and air filter annually.

David, surely you are in severe danger of being castigated for being somewhat 'enthusiastic' with your servicing regime!

Concerning fuel filter, many schedules I believe stipulate 36,000 miles? I usually have mine changed at around 15,000 miles or at least once every 18 months

Can't fault you mate.