Technical AMT temporary failure. Electrical issue?

[ashesu]

Hello.
I have a 2009 1.2 Fire Panda with an automated manual gearbox. Today while driving, during a gear hange it got stuck in neutral. No warnings in the dash. Turning off and on the engine, moving the shifter in any way did not help. I once heard an unusual noise coming from the gearbox - the pump/motor that controls the transmission. A few minutes later when I started the car again everything started working normally.

Also, since few days ago steering wheel warning dash light with text "have power steering checked" started coming up sometimes although everything seemed to work normally.

I'm thinking these might be related to some electrical issue. Though the battery is relatively new (1.5 years old) and was changed with the dynamo recently according to the man who sold it.

For a month everything was fine, I drove mostly with city mode on too.

Any ideas what this could be in particular?

I would check the battery voltage with multimeter and look for issues with OBD2 but I don't have these at the moment.

I appreciate any help.

 

[koalar]

Pretty much everything about power steering is here

EPS electric power steering faults | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

First don't panic, the vast majority of power steering faults are normally simple and cheap fixes especially if it starts failing mainly in your winter months But unfortunately nobody can say change this or do that and it fix it. A lot of different faults will cause the same symptoms or the...

www.fiatforum.com

Unfortunately there's no simple answer

But if its randomly shutting off it's usually power or ground or battery and yes I know it fairly new

There no simple battery test unfortunately, if it failing regular you could try putting it in charge over night and seeing if it improves

I swap for a known good and see if the fault goes away

 

[koalar]

The gear is likely to be a separate issue

When you first open the driver's door in the morning how long does the pump run for

What's the hydraulic level, don't btop it up though, it should be at the max mark

 

[ashesu]

The gear is likely to be a separate issue

When you first open the driver's door in the morning how long does the pump run for

What's the hydraulic level, don't btop it up though, it should be at the max mark

Around 9 seconds consistently. I should clarify that the unusual noise from it came only that one time when the gearbox stopped working.

The seller told me the dualogic fluid was replaced just about half a year ago together with the clutch. I'll check its level when I have time, it's underneath the battery as far as I understand.

 

[koalar]

Around 9 seconds consistently. I should clarify that the unusual noise from it came only that one time when the gearbox stopped working.

I'll check the dualogic fluid level when I have time, it's underneath the battery as far as I understand.

And under a metal shield

Unless some has already been there and left it off

 

[koalar]

Around 9 seconds consistently. I should clarify that the unusual noise from it came only that one time when the gearbox stopped working.

Within spec the newer the car the more they keep the pressure

4-14 seconds is classed as okay

Around 5 seconds when new so getting towards the upper limit but okay


How many gear changes can you do before the pump has to prime again

N to 1st
1st to N
N to reverse
Rev to N
And do on

 

[MrMagoo]

IMHO, when it starts misbehaving, it's normally sensors not receiving the correct signals, and it does not like damp weather.
Look for multi pin connector for the robot controller on top of the gearbox, unclip it and spray it liberally with WD40. In fact, spray all the electrical connectors with WD40. That normally sorts it for the next damp period .
You will probably have to clear the OBD codes first.

 

[ashesu]

How many gear changes can you do before the pump has to prime again

N to 1st
1st to N
N to reverse
Rev to N
And do on

While the car is running the pump works quite silently so it's difficult to tell. It's around 12 maybe - it's either not consistent or I can't hear it.
How is this result?

 

[ashesu]

How many gear changes can you do before the pump has to prime again

N to 1st
1st to N
N to reverse
Rev to N
And do on

Disregard my last post. After about 5 of such gear changes I hear the gearbox motor make a noise.

 

[koalar]

Disregard my last post. After about 5 of such gear changes I hear the gearbox motor make a noise.

Cool

I wrote a post saying 12 wasn't a valid result but forgot to hit the post reply button

4 or 5 is the normal

So getting towards the limit of what simple to diagnose

With the correct software

you can check the clutch degradation index, but only trust this if you know nobody has reset it should be below 6000

 

[ashesu]

With the correct software

you can check the clutch degradation index, but only trust this if you know nobody has reset it should be below 6000

This will require Multiecuscan software and the yellow cable?
The clutch was supposedly changed last year by the way.

Anyway, next week I'll make use of the OBD2 scanner then check and clean the battery and all the connectors.

 

[ashesu]

I did some testing with multimeter. Battery voltage is fine. Main earth test (red on the battery minus, black on chassis bolt) shows abnormal results: 50-100mv usually but drops to -20mv when I switch on everything electrical. Going to do some more testing tomorrow and clean the earth strap/connectors.
OBD2 shows no errors even when the power steering dash warning light comes up.

Does anybody have any idea what this 15A/32V blue fuse could be for? I'm sure it's aftermarket. Maybe it has to do with something here.

 

[A3jeroen]

Looks like the type of fuse I'd use for a trailer hitch with a multirelay.

gr J

 

[jackwhoo]

Basic Obd2 code reader only covers basic engine codes

 

[koalar]

To test the earth lead on the chassis or engine block you have to load them

Multimeter measuring voltage DC

Black lead on the battery negative and the other on the engine block

Get someone to crank the engine


Move the red lead from the engine to the chassis, there's a convenient stud on the center of the firewall under the windscreen in the centre

Again it needs to be under load so put the main beam on with the blowers on full and rear heated windscreen, don't leave the car too long like this switch them off after the test

Last you need to check the motor ground

Move the red lead again this time to the eye.on top of the battery terminal, I can't tell you which one as they can be one, two or three depending on the cars specification, just try them all

Again you need to load the system, so this time move the steering left to right while measuring

Each test should be under 200mV but there a bit of leeway,.they will never measure 0mV if you get 0mv one of the probes isn't making good contact

 

[koalar]

Fuse is aftermarket

The a few possibilities

Apart from @A3jeroen good suggestion, insurance black box, alarm, amp

 

[ashesu]

To test the earth lead on the chassis or engine block you have to load them

Multimeter measuring voltage DC

Black lead on the battery negative and the other on the engine block

Get someone to crank the engine


Move the red lead from the engine to the chassis, there's a convenient stud on the center of the firewall under the windscreen in the centre

Again it needs to be under load so put the main beam on with the blowers on full and rear heated windscreen, don't leave the car too long like this switch them off after the test

Last you need to check the motor ground

Move the red lead again this time to the eye.on top of the battery terminal, I can't tell you which one as they can be one, two or three depending on the cars specification, just try them all

Again you need to load the system, so this time move the steering left to right while measuring

Each test should be under 200mV but there a bit of leeway,.they will never measure 0mV if you get 0mv one of the probes isn't making good contact

The smart multimeter I got is confusing, I'm getting odd results, I'll get a more basic one and then test things.




This is the earth strap, looks like a very bad condition, gonna replace it and hopefully that fixes things.

And the fuse is for the tow hitch. I forgot the car even had one, ha.

 

[DaveMcT]

I mention this because the Selespeed system is electrically powered.

Our 1.2 started getting inconsistent steering problems. I charged the battery and it seemed to help then it started again. I replaced the battery** and a couple of weeks later the problem returned. Annoyed with myself for not properly checking, I went though the earth straps and hefty leads to alternator & starter and found the alternator case was cracked. It wasn't making any scraping noise but that was on the cards. New alternator fitted and the steering problems went away. I probably bought a battery we didn't need, but I should have checked properly.

PS. the 100HP alternator also split its casing but that warned me when it started to screech on engine start.

 

[ashesu]

So I replaced the earth strap. (Turns out the new one had slightly bigger ends so I had to put a bolt through the middle and sandwich it between two washers, gonna replace it with a proper fitting one soon). I don't think it was the issue though.

I found out that when I turn a bunch of electrical things battery voltage drops to 12.7v and below and that's not ok. I assume when driving, turning the wheel, gears being changed it goes down even further. Revving the engine puts it back closer to 14v.
Which points to an issue with an alternator, correct? What can I do at this point?

 

[koalar]

So I replaced the earth strap. (Turns out the new one had slightly bigger ends so I had to put a bolt through the middle and sandwich it between two washers, gonna replace it with a proper fitting one soon). I don't think it was the issue though.

I found out that when I turn a bunch of electrical things battery voltage drops to 12.7v and below and that's not ok. I assume when driving, turning the wheel, gears being changed it goes down even further. Revving the engine puts it back closer to 14v.
Which points to an issue with an alternator, correct? What can I do at this point?

You can force it to drop that low if you put absolutely everything on

At idle should be 14.1 nothing on
With the rear heated window , head lights and blowers on full it should be in the mid to high 13s
At idle back to 14.1 If you rev it a bit