Technical Abarth - Performance Tuning

[Dogspods]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

correct, the maf housing slowed the airflow, and also reduced the airflow, tried bigger maf housing and got the same warning, the abarth is so complicated when it comes to the induction, why pete got so fed up i suppose

it has to be so pricise, i put the maf housing in coz the mot was due and i didnt want the warning lights as they were still working on a solution as the silcone tubing is slightly bigger than the original maf housing, i reduced the size just below the sensor, using a jubilee clip and tightened it as tight as it will go, this squashed the pipe down, and lights promptly went out and havnt been back since.

and as fiat didnt know about the map, the car was still under warrenty at the time, and if they new about the map, they probably would have wormed out of the gearbox under warrenty:bang:

When i test drove my car I had a GSR kit on it, but i made the schoolboy error and took up the offer to have it removed cos I wasn't too comfortable with the warning lights on the dash :bang: Looking to have one refitted as it doesn't quite drive the same and have been waiting for as post from Pete or PNL to say they've finally cracked it.

As for your dealer, then all i can say it "how sh*te are they!?". I can't believe that no one saw the induction kit and thought to phone you to check first?? Took mine to the dealer in Aldershot and the first thing they did was run a check against the vin number to make sure all the recall mods had been carried out, then went through the mods to the car so they had a record of all changes - and this was with the car being 12months out of warranty.

 

[Argonought]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

The silicone hosing of the induction tube around the MAF had to be changed on the abarth induction kit, reduced in diameter because it was causing the car to run lean bringing up all the warning light because of too much airflow at that point. So wouldnt a large MAF housing just do the same sort of thing

You've hit the nail on the head with that comment and the answer is NO it wouldn't.

This is because the complete MAF assembly is factory calibrated to provide accurate air flow readings to the ECU. Removing the actual sensor from it's calibrated tube makes no sense unless you install it in a tube of identical dimensions (in which case - what's the point )

This is exactly what Red has proven with his jubilee clip mod

As said before, what is needed is a bigger diameter MAF sensor (assuming Bosch make one) but even then you'd have to be very careful that the output from the device is properly understood by the ECU.

 

[PNL]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

When i test drove my car I had a GSR kit on it, but i made the schoolboy error and took up the offer to have it removed cos I wasn't too comfortable with the warning lights on the dash :bang: Looking to have one refitted as it doesn't quite drive the same and have been waiting for as post from Pete or PNL to say they've finally cracked it.

As for your dealer, then all i can say it "how sh*te are they!?". I can't believe that no one saw the induction kit and thought to phone you to check first?? Took mine to the dealer in Aldershot and the first thing they did was run a check against the vin number to make sure all the recall mods had been carried out, then went through the mods to the car so they had a record of all changes - and this was with the car being 12months out of warranty.

Yep the 2.4 was a bitch with the engine lights and I personally dont think it will ever change....Another point I will bring up is Red said that the flow of air was to much for the sensor to cope with and a restriction in the tube was put there to slow down the flow ..now if you read a thread on this on Performance stilo it will tell you there Mark that the restriction was put there to actually speed up the air flow and NOT slow it down.. I rebuilt the new tooling for the 2.4 with more detail to the restriction but can neither confirm or deny if its done the job ..so if anyone wants to have the kit [which isn't there on the GSR site] you will as I have said contact them direct..

 

[Sparky1483]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

You've hit the nail on the head with that comment and the answer is NO it wouldn't.

This is because the complete MAF assembly is factory calibrated to provide accurate air flow readings to the ECU. Removing the actual sensor from it's calibrated tube makes no sense unless you install it in a tube of identical dimensions (in which case - what's the point )

This is exactly what Red has proven with his jubilee clip mod

As said before, what is needed is a bigger diameter MAF sensor (assuming Bosch make one) but even then you'd have to be very careful that the output from the device is properly understood by the ECU.

i managed to get hold of a bigger maf housing and the car didnt like it at all, with a re-map it may have worked better

 

[Sparky1483]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

Yep the 2.4 was a bitch with the engine lights and I personally dont think it will ever change...Another point I will bring up is Red said that the flow of air was to much for the sensor to cope with and a restriction in the tube was put there to slow down the flow ..now if you read a thread on this on Performance stilo it will tell you there Mark that the restriction was put there to actually speed up the air flow and NOT slow it down.. I rebuilt the new tooling for the 2.4 with more detail to the restriction but can neither confirm or deny if its done the job ..so if anyone wants to have the kit [which isn't there on the GSR site] you will as I have said contact them direct..

i meant restict the amount of air, not the speed of the flow

sorry phil

 

[Argonought]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

i managed to get hold of a bigger maf housing and the car didnt like it at all, with a re-map it may have worked better

I doubt it Red.

Best to check with Bosch that the output (assuming at least the socket is the same) is fully compatible with that of the original.

Even then you'd still have to modify everything to make it fit which would be a lot of work and expense

Most likely not worth it just for 5-10 BHP :chin:

 

[Sparky1483]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

I doubt it Red.

Best to check with Bosch that the output (assuming at least the socket is the same) is fully compatible with that of the original.

Even then you'd still have to modify everything to make it fit which would be a lot of work and expense

Most likely not worth it just for 5-10 BHP :chin:

no it was just the casing mate, not the maf aswell, the maf was the original off my car, but the casing was both wider and longer than my original casing, and the car didnt like it one bit, all the usual failures and very very poor running.

remember i doctored my original GSR kit to icorporate the maf and casing, and although its slightly wider than the original, i did fit with a little persuation

 

[OzMoSiS]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

WRT the thread, a certain member was running around 245bhp

didnt do his schumi much good though

 

[Argonought]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

no it was just the casing mate, not the maf aswell, the maf was the original off my car, but the casing was both wider and longer than my original casing, and the car didnt like it one bit, all the usual failures and very very poor running.

That wont work Red (as you've discovered )

The MAF sensor is calibrated to provide correct readings ONLY when it's in its proper casing. As far as I can see, that's been the basic mistake of the GSR kits for both the 2.4 and the JTD from the start

If you can squeeze the GSR MAF mount so that it's identical to the size of the proper MAF housing then it should work (again as you've discovered ).

The big problem here is that the MAF itself seems to restrict airflow so you're sort of going back to square one (also as you've discovered) and start losing BHP

The answer as I've said before is to get a bigger MAF unit

 

[PNL]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

Its not been put forward but I will now ..when the fault on the 2.4 first reared its ugly head it was at a r/r day at chipped uk..it was found [on a fiat examiner] that the engine was running lean at certain revs and that is what the problem was.[causing the dash lights ].also discussed on the day by Jason the owner was the possibility of looking at the sensor its self in the AFM as the wire in there has a specific resistance and it was thought that changing the sensor or getting it modified to a higher resistance[Jason the owner can help there] it would then compensate for the extra air being flowed by the induction kit.

GSR thought that if the mappers knew their jobs properly it could be mapped out.[which has proven to be incorrect] No mapping to date has corrected this and I think if the sensor in the afm was looked at and some R&D done someone might come up with a solution for both the 2.4 and the JTD..but that would be up to the individual owner..

 

[Argonought]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

That's a lot of R&D - have you examined just how delicate the sensor is

I've given the easy answer which is to make use of all the R&D done by Bosch - albeit rather pricey as you'll start at £100+ being the price of a larger MAF sensor (assuming it's even possible to buy one :chin

 

[PNL]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

That's a lot of R&D - have you examined just how delicate the sensor is

I've given the easy answer which is to make use of all the R&D done by Bosch - albeit rather pricey as you'll start at £100+ being the price of a larger MAF sensor (assuming it's even possible to buy one :chin

Jason has a friend who rebuilds the sensors [standard or other wise] for around the £30/40 mark with a 45 minuet turn around on the repair..might be worth it if the R&D was done or even for a new sensor ..when you consider the cost of them.. there not cheap :bang: just thought I would throw that in the pot for anyone wishing to save some cash on a new sensor..

 

[Argonought]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

That's a good price although you'd really want to modify say a cheap MAF purchased from eBay rather than modify the OEM original (as it would be effectively ruined and could never be refitted in standard induction)

 

[PNL]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

That's a good price although you'd really want to modify say a cheap MAF purchased from eBay rather than modify the OEM original (as it would be effectively ruined and could never be refitted in standard induction)

Wreck an original .. god forbid. must be a few naff ones hanging around on here..and you now owe me a pint for the info.. :devil:

 

[Sparky1483]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

i got two shafted ones here,

apparently, when i introduced the casing to the gsr kit, i only lost 5bhp on all the others, and had the best pick of all the 2.4's (according to jason)

 

[Dogspods]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

I'd really like the GRS kit re-installed on the car but this thread is now giving me more doubts than the dash warning lights when I bought the car

 

[Sparky1483]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

I'd really like the GRS kit re-installed on the car but this thread is now giving me more doubts than the dash warning lights when I bought the car

just do what i did, and no lights

 

[Dogspods]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

just do what i did, and no lights

OK <starts thinking up excuses to give GF> new GSR kit, re-map and magical jubilee clip will set me back how much??

 

[PNL]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

OK <starts thinking up excuses to give GF> new GSR kit, re-map and magical jubilee clip will set me back how much??

Kit was around £220 IIRC..remap ..depends on where you go..:shrug:afm and clips free their on the car already..

 

[Dogspods]

Re: abarth upgrade to gain 30bhp+?

Kit was around £220 IIRC..remap ..depends on where you go..:shrug:afm and clips free their on the car already..

£220!! Bargain but if she goes mental on me I'm blaming you lot!

Gonna do it this was round, fit kit, wait for dust to settle then remap, ideally would like that done at Red Dot as the previous kit was fitted at one of their RR days.

...as the silcone tubing is slightly bigger than the original maf housing, i reduced the size just below the sensor, using a jubilee clip and tightened it as tight as it will go, this squashed the pipe down, and lights promptly went out and havnt been back since...

any chance of a pic of said magical jubilee clip in place??