General Abarth 500 Real World MPG

[306maxi]

Near me tbh. Bleeding the benefits system dry so they can have one. Disability benefit for a 'bad back'. Parks up in a bright yellow clio cup then climbs up ladders to clean his gutters etc .

What I found weird about that vid is why the 4way blinkers round most of the footage? would drive me nutz following that! And for what it is the A500 is quick, no getting away from its Panda roots handling wise though (judging by that clip). Would benefit long time by a Quaffe LSD!

Like this?

Nice colour at least

 

[DraigFlag87]

Near me tbh. Bleeding the benefits system dry so they can have one. Disability benefit for a 'bad back'. Parks up in a bright yellow clio cup then climbs up ladders to clean his gutters etc .

What I found weird about that vid is why the 4way blinkers round most of the footage? would drive me nutz following that! And for what it is the A500 is quick, no getting away from its Panda roots handling wise though (judging by that clip). Would benefit long time by a Quaffe LSD!

It obviously doesn't handle as well as the competition, but the TTC is like an electronic diff (as such) recently praised in the Top Gear magazine, they said how effective it was at reducing under steer, and that they couldn't imagine a situation where anyone would want to turn it off. It's weird when it kicks in, it doesn't sap the power at all, it's like getting clutch slip except you're still moving!

 

[306maxi]

It obviously doesn't handle as well as the competition, but the TTC is like an electronic diff (as such) recently praised in the Top Gear magazine, they said how effective it was at reducing under steer, and that they couldn't imagine a situation where anyone would want to turn it off. It's weird when it kicks in, it doesn't sap the power at all, it's like getting clutch slip except you're still moving!

By virtue the TTC system will sap power (it applies the brakes!) but of course it's probably better than a completely open diff.

 

[sikersh]

What sort of place do you live in where the chavs have 16k to put down on a Clio Cup?

It's called Greater Manchester lol Lot's of benefit scroungers round here......and drug dealers

 

[sikersh]

I agree that the A500 is better looking. But the Clio is faster.

I think we all know it's faster, but as a day to day road car the Abarth is the ultimate package: looks great, brill MPG, nippy, comfortable and very rare. Something too quick wouldn't be realistic for normal road conditions (as it's mentioned on here).

 

[DraigFlag87]

By virtue the TTC system will sap power (it applies the brakes!) but of course it's probably better than a completely open diff.

It's hard to explain how it feels when it kicks in, you don't notice it working in corners as much, you just know it is by the speed at which you've just come round with very little under steer. You can best feel the system working if you do a full throttle start in moist conditions, instead of the front wheels spinning like crazy, you can feel the power moving from wheel to wheel, but no power is lost. The ASR interferes less as well, that is a driver aid that does sap power! It works well in the snow too

 

[306maxi]

I think we all know it's faster, but as a day to day road car the Abarth is the ultimate package: looks great, brill MPG, nippy, comfortable and very rare. Something too quick wouldn't be realistic for normal road conditions (as it's mentioned on here).

You don't have to drive it at 100% though

Draigflag, I understand how it works, but like I said by virtue of what it does it'll take power away.

The lag in turbo engines even though it's small these days also helps with traction control from standing starts too because they've not got as much power right at the bottom of the rev range when the turbo isn't spinning..

 

[jimbro1000]

What kind of standing start are you doing?

Optimum launch method is about 3500rpm holding the car on the clutch and handbrake. Let go of the the handbrake, dump the clutch and floor the throttle at the same time, you get about 5-10% wheel slip which is roughly optimum, the engine doesn't bog down at all and the car takes off much faster than is otherwise possible. The traction control might kick in if you over do it or the road isn't as dry or solid as it looks.

There is no lag in this situation and no hesitation just lots of damage to your clutch release bearing.

The TTC only reduces delivery of power in the bends when you would otherwise be wasting it by spinning up the inside wheel in effect you are actually delivering more power, not less. Thanks to the open diff there is hardly any braking effort needed from the TTC. If there was a LSD or a locking diff it would be another matter.

 

[306maxi]

What kind of standing start are you doing?

Optimum launch method is about 3500rpm holding the car on the clutch and handbrake. Let go of the the handbrake, dump the clutch and floor the throttle at the same time, you get about 5-10% wheel slip which is roughly optimum, the engine doesn't bog down at all and the car takes off much faster than is otherwise possible. The traction control might kick in if you over do it or the road isn't as dry or solid as it looks.

There is no lag in this situation and no hesitation just lots of damage to your clutch release bearing.

The TTC only reduces delivery of power in the bends when you would otherwise be wasting it by spinning up the inside wheel in effect you are actually delivering more power, not less. Thanks to the open diff there is hardly any braking effort needed from the TTC. If there was a LSD or a locking diff it would be another matter.

Hence why it's silly to do 3k launches in a turbo car. The only turbo car I drive is a Subaru so it's especially silly to do it as the 4wd will knacker the clutch.

 

[ChrisUK]

Like this?

Nice colour at least

Yeah exactly like that. Drives it round the streets like that too :tosser:

If I had one I'd defo be going for a Quaffe, Theres a few lads who've put them in modified N/A 1.4's and can't believe the difference in handling even when the 1.4 is residing in a Sei/Cinq (probably the worse handling Fiat for a long time!).

If I didn't have the Coupé I'd get one for the Punto, they make one for the Coupe too which is a bit pointless as it has a 'ViscoDrive' diff out the factory which really works! :slayer:

 

[306maxi]

Yeah exactly like that. Drives it round the streets like that too :tosser:

If I had one I'd defo be going for a Quaffe, Theres a few lads who've put them in modified N/A 1.4's and can't believe the difference in handling even when the 1.4 is residing in a Sei/Cinq (probably the worse handling Fiat for a long time!).

If I didn't have the Coupé I'd get one for the Punto, they make one for the Coupe too which is a bit pointless as it has a 'ViscoDrive' diff out the factory which really works! :slayer:

Yeah, pointless upgrading. The wifes Scooby has a viscous LSD at the rear as standard IIRC so not much point upgrading there either. Though with 4wd snow and ice is the only time you'll ever find yourself needing it.

Hate people who drive quick cars quick around towns and the like....

 

[jimbro1000]

If I had one I'd defo be going for a Quaffe, Theres a few lads who've put them in modified N/A 1.4's and can't believe the difference in handling even when the 1.4 is residing in a Sei/Cinq (probably the worse handling Fiat for a long time!).

If you think the old 'centos are "bad handling" then you're driving them wrong. They will understeer horrendously if you just floor the throttle and they have a tendency to completely lift the rear of the car off the floor if you're trying too hard on the brakes (which makes for very interesting steering) but the tiny size makes for great ability if you know how to use it - even the overenthusiastic brakes can work for you rather than against you.

Drive them the way they are supposed to be driven and they will do an excellent job. If you forget all smoothness and mechanical sympathy and, yes, they do handle badly - just like most other cars would under the circumstances.

Most of the handling problems that people complain about come from worn out suspension bushes and messed up steering geometry from too much spelunking. That is where the centos are particularly bad - the front and rear arms are a bit pathetic. There is also the matter of people fitting lowering kits - something guaranteed to make any car handle about as badly as it is every likely to. Worse still they fit adjustable suspension without having a clue what to do with it (this of course applies to any car).

"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong -- look what they can do to a Weber carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver." - Colin Chapman

Do you think we could make this thread any more off-topic and still keep it relevant?

 

[306maxi]

If you think the old 'centos are "bad handling" then you're driving them wrong. They will understeer horrendously if you just floor the throttle and they have a tendency to completely lift the rear of the car off the floor if you're trying too hard on the brakes (which makes for very interesting steering) but the tiny size makes for great ability if you know how to use it - even the overenthusiastic brakes can work for you rather than against you.

Drive them the way they are supposed to be driven and they will do an excellent job. If you forget all smoothness and mechanical sympathy and, yes, they do handle badly - just like most other cars would under the circumstances.

Most of the handling problems that people complain about come from worn out suspension bushes and messed up steering geometry from too much spelunking. That is where the centos are particularly bad - the front and rear arms are a bit pathetic. There is also the matter of people fitting lowering kits - something guaranteed to make any car handle about as badly as it is every likely to. Worse still they fit adjustable suspension without having a clue what to do with it (this of course applies to any car).

"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong -- look what they can do to a Weber carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver." - Colin Chapman

Do you think we could make this thread any more off-topic and still keep it relevant?

Amen to that! To me my 500 is the worst handling car I've ever driven. It's OK on smooth roads and grips well there but as soon as damping comes into play it's all over the place.

 

[jimbro1000]

The seicento has a hugely improved damping setup compared to the old cinqucento that makes a world of difference - so does having dampers that actually work the way they are supposed to in the first place.

I bought a heavily modified seicento some while back that handled brilliantly until it hit a bump and then you realised there was virtually no damping at all. On one occasion the whole car launched about 6 inches into the air after hitting a small pot hole that I normally wouldn't even have felt. It was pretty scary stuff until the dampers were replaced and after that it was superb (right up until the exhaust snapped in half but that is another story).

My new A500 by comparison is just too stiff for comfort but handles excellently, it isn't fidgety like the top end Renault sports editions that I've driven, it just grips the road and goes. That said I had to get a suspension mount replaced earlier this year that had made the handling a bit suspect - almost like a bent swingarm but not quite. It is starting to go the same way again so I will be checking it in with BM some time in the next month for a checkup before the really nasty sets in.

 

[306maxi]

The seicento has a hugely improved damping setup compared to the old cinqucento that makes a world of difference - so does having dampers that actually work the way they are supposed to in the first place.

I bought a heavily modified seicento some while back that handled brilliantly until it hit a bump and then you realised there was virtually no damping at all. On one occasion the whole car launched about 6 inches into the air after hitting a small pot hole that I normally wouldn't even have felt. It was pretty scary stuff until the dampers were replaced and after that it was superb (right up until the exhaust snapped in half but that is another story).

My new A500 by comparison is just too stiff for comfort but handles excellently, it isn't fidgety like the top end Renault sports editions that I've driven, it just grips the road and goes. That said I had to get a suspension mount replaced earlier this year that had made the handling a bit suspect - almost like a bent swingarm but not quite. It is starting to go the same way again so I will be checking it in with BM some time in the next month for a checkup before the really nasty sets in.

Yes some damping is good. I had a similar experience to you a while back. Went through a corner at a fairly (imho) pedestrian speed, and it hit a bump and the back end stepped out. I'm no Colin McRae but I easily caught it but suspect a lot of people who've no idea what opposite lock is, would have been caught out. The dampers on the Panda's don't seem to be lasting much past their warranty so if that happens to my 500 it would be a good excuse to get some Bilstein coilovers and head somewhere like Demon Tweeks and get the car corner weighted and setup well.

 

[DraigFlag87]

Yes, hold the engine at 3500 revs and let the clutch go, timed a 0-60 time of less than 7 secs. What little turbo lag there used to be has now almost completely gone thanks to the TMC box. You can feel the turbo kick in immediately, in fact there's so much boost you can hear it over boosting sometimes. Will be getting x4 new tyres on Friday, so this will help with traction

 

[306maxi]

Yes, hold the engine at 3500 revs and let the clutch go

Can't think why your first gearbox died!

 

[DraigFlag87]

Can't think why your first gearbox died!

Gearbox was fine actually, it was the good for nothing dealer that knew so little about the car, they couldn't tell the difference between a faulty gearbox and a normal whine. I found this out after driving 3 or more other A500's which all made exactly the same noise. Ah well too late now.

 

[jimbro1000]

The gearbox is stronger than that - it is the clutch release bearing that suffers more than anything else. With regular racing launches like that you'd be lucky to see 50k out of it - more likely it would begin to fail around 30k while the clutch itself would be good for 100+k. The bearing doesn't come cheap though and neither does the labour - in fact it seems to me that the bearing has become the expensive bit in the clutch assembly, having just replaced the clutch on my son's seicento...

 

[LBrench]

you cannot compare a clio 200/200 cup to an A500 its in a totally differnt league, i owned a clio 200 with full cup chassis, carbon bonnet and a rear section roll cage for 7 months and on track and a fast b road there isnt much that can keep up.

my firned has an astra vxr 'ring edition and asoon as it got twisie on a road i was off, he couldnt keep up at all, with the clio its all about staying in the 5k rev band and staying on the power.

also tracked it and it was flawless

lynden