General A Sad Day : RIP

[spankysmagicpiano]

I was driving home tonight and started to hear some knocking. I initially thought the exhaust had come off but no - it was coming from the engine. Managed to get home and it conked out.

Started it up again and phoned the garage. Said it sounded like the big end

I always top the oil up but what with Christmas and maybe it's been burning a little more than usual - I think it's done for now as it won't even turn over.

I've had this car years and years, only done 75K and I was the second owner. It never (until now) let me down. Whatever it took to keep it on the road - it got.

So, I have two choices :

1. Strip it down for parts and sell them
2. Scrap it

Would I get more selling it as is?

 

[panda1408]

Could just fit a new engine? Not that big of a job with the right kit and shouldn't be too hard to find a suitable engine.

What age and model is it?

 

[spankysmagicpiano]

Fire 1L Fizz - 1993

 

[FDNY21]

1L Fizz Fire from 93? Same as mine

Not sure how easy it is to get a 999cc engine on its own to buy but I'm sure there's some scrap Pandas still lying around with one you might be able to get. If you're feeling like taking the car to the next level, a Fiat 1.2 engine is a common choice though.

I feel like you'd get a lot more out of the car if you changed engine rather than stripped it down for parts

Only 33 of the Fizz models left on the road too apparently!

 

[spankysmagicpiano]

I know

So do 1.2 engines fit in without any mods then? Which models are they from?

PS - just realised I have had her 10 years now

 

[Ian_Fearn]

Assuming the garage is correct and the bodywork is in good condition then it must be worth searching out a replacement engine. I think I'd want to rule out a few things before agreeing with the diagnosis though.

There's a couple of 1.1 engines on eBay right now, one from a panda selecta and another from a cinq sporting.

Surely an engine change is a days work max plus a good opportunity to do a good service, clutch and box oil change.
I'd hate to see a good car scrapped just for the sake of an engine. The original might even be rebuildable given time.

 

[FDNY21]

I know

So do 1.2 engines fit in without any mods then? Which models are they from?

PS - just realised I have had her 10 years now

1.2 engines fit in but may need some slight modifications. I haven't ever done an engine swap in a Panda before but there's a few people here with some know-how. I don't think they're meant to be extremely difficult to swap in, as compared to what some engines could be like!

Check out page 7 of this thread, recently panda set up a 4x4 with a 16 valve 1242cc from a mk2 2001 Bravo: https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/427393-henry-orange-4x4-7.html

Blu might have some info in his thread as well, he's converting his previously 750 into a 1.2 I believe it is, though having a dig through his thread may find some more exact details as I can't remember off the top of my head. Link again: https://www.fiatforum.com/members-motors/432339-charmanda-er-mania-continued.html?p=4126217
blu73 how has it been going with the swap?

 

[Ian_Fearn]

Where are you located? Maybe somebody here is local and could give you a second opinion?

 

[spankysmagicpiano]

Thanks FDNY21.

I'm in South Manchester Ian.

I'll have a look on Ebay at those now - I presume they slot right in.

 

[FDNY21]

There should be some other engines such as older Punto ones for example that should be quite close to the "slot right in" type, but I would still let a couple people who have done swaps pitch in first as I don't know the level of complexity it will take and how close it really is to a direct slot in. It could still require some other small modifications

 

[panda1408]

A 1.2 8v taken from a mk1 Punto could be fitted and run using the original Panda fuel injection system. If you did this it would pretty much be a straight swap, it would just need some mods to the exhaust and air filter due to the 1.2 being physically taller.

I wouldn't really advise doing that though as it would mean you are running the 1.2 using a system intended for a 999cc. It's not going to be running to its full potential so makes the bigger engine a bit pointless in my opinion.

Using the original Punto injection system would be best, some more work involved in doing that, but nothing too major, especially as the car is already set up for fuel injection. You can of course move to onto 16vs and also engines from newer cars, but complexity increases with these meaning much more work to get them working in a Panda.

There are plenty of 999cc engines about if you look in the right places, keeping it standard is always going to be the easiest if you just want the car working again.

 

[Ian_Fearn]

I really think you should try and get a proper diagnosis before you launch into an engine change. These little engines are known for being pretty tough.

Does the engine turn over by hand? You say it won't turn over anymore, what exactly do you mean? What is the current oil level like? How much oil was it using pre failure?

If I take your previous comments literally and it won't turn over on the starter and it's not an electrical fault with the starter then I'd want to see if the engine was seized by putting a socket/ring spanner on the crank pulley and turning it over by hand.

 

[blu73]

as above really... mk1 punto engine, or 1.1 from a cinq or early (1998-2000) seicento will be super easy swap. Particularly as its an injection model panda. Only thing that makes mine remotely tricky is mine was a carb'd one so i need to make a fuel system for it. but for you its as simple as whipping the sender unit out the tank and replacing it with one from the donor.

And yes it will just bolt in, take the engine mounts off your engine and bolt them onto new engine, drop it in. Best to do full swap including all the ingition system and everything but if you got a 1.1 engine you could even just swap the bottom end and bolt the head off your car and leave everything and it would run just fine. Technically freddy is right that it won't be optimised but it would work just fine - i ran a 1242 fire one a 1108 ecu for 10s of thousands of miles and it ran perfectly. But strictly speaking the right way to do it is to do the full swap.

Whatever you do this does not by any stretch mean you should scrap the car!! You may want to get someone to look at it properly before you do anything. Big end going on a low miler car which i suspect hasn't been massively abused and never had an oil change and like seems a bit random and unlikely. And its so hard to judge stuff like this from a phone call or video

And yes Owen, my panda, i'm on it, few new parts received, off outside to play with it a bit 2moro - want to get it rolling so when my other purchase (several light fittings) turn up i can put them up in the garage so i can go down there and work on the car in evenings and also shut the door and get a heater on

 

[lukmek]

A 1.2 8v taken from a mk1 Punto could be fitted and run using the original Panda fuel injection system. If you did this it would pretty much be a straight swap, it would just need some mods to the exhaust and air filter due to the 1.2 being physically taller.



I wouldn't really advise doing that though as it would mean you are running the 1.2 using a system intended for a 999cc. It's not going to be running to its full potential so makes the bigger engine a bit pointless in my opinion.



Using the original Punto injection system would be best, some more work involved in doing that, but nothing too major, especially as the car is already set up for fuel injection. You can of course move to onto 16vs and also engines from newer cars, but complexity increases with these meaning much more work to get them working in a Panda.



There are plenty of 999cc engines about if you look in the right places, keeping it standard is always going to be the easiest if you just want the car working again.

Sound advice
I trust a cinquecento engine is a straight swap as well
!

 

[lukmek]

A 900cc 29KW cinquecento is around £250 plenty around and easy swap

 

[Eklipze3k]

A 900cc 29KW cinquecento is around £250 plenty around and easy swap
View attachment 175322

The 899 is totally different to the 999, the 1108 would drop straight in

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Hi, if you want an easy fix direct replacement 999cc engine I have three available. Just let me know, I won't want anything for them if it helps get a panda back on the road! I'm in North Yorkshire.

 

[spankysmagicpiano]

Re: A Sad Day : RIP *Update*

Thanks Andy for your offer and everyone who have pitched in with help and advice.

Had a chat this morning and he thought it was strange that the oil light has never come on although his first thoughts and by the actual sound of it, the big end had gone.

Anyway, he told me a few weeks ago he had a call from a woman with the same problem on a different car which he sorted. He told me to pop back and cut the belt on the alternator and try it. Did that, fired up first time and it's sounds awfully quiet!

So, the alternator had finally seized stopping the engine turning over. New one ordered for Monday

Thanks for your help guys :worship: and I feel a bit stupid thinking the worst and panicking!

 

[lukmek]

Good news then!

 

[Palio]

It's pretty hard to kill a Fire engine in a Panda. Looks like Andy still hasn't got rid of one of his spares!