Technical 899cc Not Starting!

[Bagpuss23]

Hi All

So we have got another Cinq. (Not turboing this one!)

It is an R reg 899cc with only 18000 miles on the clock.

It has been working fine up to Friday night!

Then it wouldn't start. So we released the fuel cap pressure and it started then drove about 4 miles, it spluttered then stopped! Manage to get it back home and it hasn't started since. When you turn the ignition on the fuel pump primes and then it just cranks over.

This is what we have done so far:

Cleaned all the visible earths
Checked the 2 relays above the ECU (And the 5A fuse)
Cleaned the Crank Position Sensor and Ring

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Lou

 

[Ivan MadGyver]

Did you check if fuel comes to the throttle body,is the injector works,fuel filter is ok?

 

[Bagpuss23]

So we removed the fuel feed to the carburetor and turned the ignition on to prime the fuel pump and got fuel there, but no fuel when cranking.

Also tried easy start and still wouldn't start. So I've got no spark and no fuel on crank.

Could it be crank position sensor failure?

 

[varesecrazy]

So we removed the fuel feed to the carburetor and turned the ignition on to prime the fuel pump and got fuel there, but no fuel when cranking.

Also tried easy start and still wouldn't start. So I've got no spark and no fuel on crank.

Could it be crank position sensor failure?

Have you removed the filler cap again..?
It could be it's not 'breathing.. '

 

[Bagpuss23]

We have tried starting it with the filler cap removed and it still won't start

 

[varesecrazy]

We have tried starting it with the filler cap removed and it still won't start

Ok,

Carefully dribble a little fuel down the throttle body

It should start on that

If it doesn't your issue isn't fuel

 

[Bagpuss23]

We also tried doing that and it still wont start. So there is definitely no spark and no fuel.

Have bench tested the 2 relays above the ECU and they are working, as we an hear the fuel pump priming.

Forgot to mention that the 'fuel injection' light on the dash was coming on and off just before the car conked out and refused to start.

 

[varesecrazy]

We also tried doing that and it still wont start. So there is definitely no spark and no fuel.

Have bench tested the 2 relays above the ECU and they are working, as we an hear the fuel pump priming.

Forgot to mention that the 'fuel injection' light on the dash was coming on and off just before the car conked out and refused to start.

That's is often a signal from the Lambda sensor ( exhaust..)

 

[Prawny12009]

First step would be to get fault codes read if you've had the FI light flashing it will have stored fault codes.

 

[Bagpuss23]

Have got a diagnostics but not the correct lead. (Not willing to pay Fiat's price)

We have changed the crank sensor and it still won't start but we have now got a dribble from the injector, but still no spark!

Help!

 

[Ivan MadGyver]

Test with another ECU if you can.
Check your cable harness where you can for damage (smashed,bitten,corrosion or whatever else),clean every contact with contact cleaner.

 

[Bagpuss23]

We haven't got a spare.

All connectors are good. And getting voltage.

Can anyone recommend a lead that can work with an Autel reader?

 

[Prawny12009]

Have got a diagnostics but not the correct lead. (Not willing to pay Fiat's price)

We have changed the crank sensor and it still won't start but we have now got a dribble from the injector, but still no spark!

Help!

You can get a cheap 3 pin to obd lead and a cheap vag com style odb-usb lead from eBay

The diagnostic software for pc is freely available online, multi ecu scan etc

 

[Prawny12009]

16Pin OBD2 to 3Pin OBD1 Diagnostic Adaptor Connector Cable For Fiat Alpha | eBay

This is only an adaptor and must be used in conjunction with hardware compatible with the vehicle.

www.ebay.co.uk

If your autel supports odb 1 functions it might plug straight in, if not u will need a vag com style cable and suitable software.

My launch has a selection of obd1 manufacturer specific adapters Inc fiat 3pin,

The cable has odb2 to connect to the scanner, a barrel socket for 12v power via crocodile clips and what looks like a VGA connection for the manufacturer specific adapters.

 

[Prawny12009]

This is the launch cable, my x431pros will read early fiat via 3pin adapter but the model list is limited.

If you can find someone selling the launch accessories you might be able to get the full set of obd1 connectors and cable.

You sometimes see them for sale when the main machine is missing or broken.

 

[Bagpuss23]

Thanks for all the replies.

We changed the crank sensor and it still wouldn't start.

So we bought a connector from ebay (which didn't fit, but we made it work)

We got the following fault codes:

We cleared all the faults BUT it still just cranks. And the codes haven't come back

Thanks

 

[Bagpuss23]

So we bought an ECU off Ebay with the immobiliser removed, and the car still doesn't start! Just cranks.

Any other ideas?

 

[Ivan MadGyver]

Have you measured ignition coils and spark plug cables to be in specs?
Alternator functions properly?
Clogged fuel hose or filter?
Fuel pump tested?
Check also the vacuum hoses to the TB.

 

[Bagpuss23]

We have checked the majority of them and are pretty sure the fuel side is all functional.

But the ignition side is definitely at fault.

After checking lots of things it appears everything is functional all the way upto the coils, (12v on crank from the primary windings to the coils) but if we remove a spark plug and earth it to the block there is no spark. We removed the coils and ran an ohms test on them and they do appear to be out of spec with the Haynes manual! But they are both equally out of spec. What are the chances of the both dying together or equally out of spec. Seems a little odd.

 

[Ivan MadGyver]

There are enough chance's,they are parts of same day manufacturing perhaps that are both under the same workload, environment, km's and everything you can think.
Had all three magnetic locks failed on my Cinquecento,later both headlamps the same time. On my DT125 had failure the same time ignition coil and stator. These are enough for me to consider it can happen.