General 60 vs 69

[koalar]

We have have all heard that the 60 has better low down pulling where it’s needed

I have even said this myself

I have owned both and from the driving seat it would appear to be the case

I have seen some power runs on the same rolling road of both the standard 60 and 69 both on a standard exhaust and a performance exhaust

First of I will have to say I wasn’t there when the runs took place. Air temperature and so on can affect the results

Anyhow this is how I see the results. Both the 60 and 69 with a performance exhaust made no difference low to mid revs and very small improvement approaching the rev limit

The 69 bangs out slightly more power throughout the rev range even low down. But the difference is negligible low down.

Now here's where the two differ the 60 drops off far more sharply approaching the rev limit. Which is why the 69 feels so much more gutsy higher up the rev range

 

[jrkitching]

Subjectively, my own experience mirrors yours. The 60HP engine is nicer to drive areound town than the 69HP VVT unit. Not by much, but the difference is definitely noticeable.

Rolling road tests aren't the same as real word driving; they're generally done under full throttle opening, which isn't representative of how most folks drive, most of the time.

What matters in day to day driving is how the car pulls low down under light or moderate throttle, and that's where the 60HP engine has the edge on the 69. Accelerating under a light throttle in 5th in the 25mph-30mph band is when you'll really notice the difference.

Being able to stay in 5th in urban traffic greatly helps economy, too.

 

[mozart]

We have have all heard that the 60 has better low down pulling where it’s needed

I have even said this myself

I have owned both and from the driving seat it would appear to be the case

I have seen some power runs on the same rolling road of both the standard 60 and 69 both on a standard exhaust and a performance exhaust

First of I will have to say I wasn’t there when the runs took place. Air temperature and so on can affect the results

Anyhow this is how I see the results. Both the 60 and 69 with a performance exhaust made no difference low to mid revs and very small improvement approaching the rev limit

The 69 bangs out slightly more power throughout the rev range even low down. But the difference is negligible low down.

Now here's where the two differ the 60 drops off far more sharply approaching the rev limit. Which is why the 69 feels so much more gutsy higher up the rev range

mate what numbers have you seen with performance exhaust ?also what exhaust back box or headers and 200cel cat ? or no cat at all ? does it worth the efort ? i have a 4x4 climbing 60cv and trye to give it some horses .....exhaust , i made a nice intake that work good ,ecu reprograming and reprofile cam ..

 

[koalar]

Sorry deleted the information from my phone

It was just from cat back

This site has some nice data

Performance sport exhaust for FIAT 500 1.2i, FIAT 500 1.2i (69 Hp) '07 ->, FIAT, exhaust systems

Performance sport exhaust for FIAT 500 1.2i, FIAT 500 1.2i (69 Hp) '07 ->, FIAT, exhaust systems

www.supersprint.com

 

[mozart]

Sorry deleted the information from my phone

It was just from cat back

This site has some nice data

Performance sport exhaust for FIAT 500 1.2i, FIAT 500 1.2i (69 Hp) '07 ->, FIAT, exhaust systems

Performance sport exhaust for FIAT 500 1.2i, FIAT 500 1.2i (69 Hp) '07 ->, FIAT, exhaust systems

www.supersprint.com

thank you mate i have read also all your threads for the steering wheel problems ...great infos
what is your opinion on voltage stabilizers ? does it work ?

 

[koalar]

Found Fiat official engine dyno runs

Engines are new and run in for 50 hours

Standard exhaust and air filter

 

[rmjbn1]

Thanks koalar, that's interesting to see. In the second graph, is the dotted line the 60, and solid line 69, do you know? Or is the first graph the 60?

 

[DaveMcT]

The 100HP is faster than 60 but around town the difference is minimal for higher fuel costs. In short, the 60 is a damn good engine. Both benefit from posh petrol - it does make for a nicer drive and costs per mile are neutral. The official performance figures are done with 97 Octane fuel. If you run 95, the retarded ignition timing means the engine wont make the full power.

 

[koalar]

Thanks koalar, that's interesting to see. In the second graph, is the dotted line the 60, and solid line 69, do you know? Or is the first graph the 60?

No idea

I did wonder but there’s no explanation

Top line does tally with the quoted specs

I have had a 60 and 69 and they feel the same to me to 3000 revs which is the same as the dyno.

My VVT panda has a 500 gearbox fitted though which might have different ratios

I know some struggle with the VVT at low revs, no idea why

 

[koalar]

Thanks koalar, that's interesting to see. In the second graph, is the dotted line the 60, and solid line 69, do you know? Or is the first graph the 60?

Should have mentioned
First graph 60
Second 69

No idea why there’s two lines on the second

The graphs are buried within eLearn

 

[timmycm850]

My experience is the 60hp is better for local and the 69hp better for a/b roads plus motorways.

Its simply down to the 69hp being a Euro6 engine with weaker power just up from idle(its cheaper on the road tax due to lower emmisions).
The 69hp is not so easy to do hill starts with the euro 6 set up hence the invention of hill holders in the same period from most manufacturers.
I've known of other manufacturers changing clutches under warranty because of owners driveways being uphill for the very start of a journey when cold and the clutch getting the abuse.
Tim

 

[vexorg]

The 69hp is not so easy to do hill starts with the euro 6 set up hence the invention of hill holders in the same period from most manufacturers.

The 500 1.2 is the 69hp, never had an issue with hillstarts, and it lives on a one way hill that only goes up the hill.

 

[timmycm850]

If I'm honest. I don't have issue with the 69hp on hill starts either, I've seen other people driving them. To be fair I've driven with carbs for years and can cope with them easily too, remember those things called chokes!

 

[koalar]

The 500 1.2 is the 69hp, never had an issue with hillstarts, and it lives on a one way hill that only goes up the hill

Strange isn’t it

I have had both the only difference is the 69 hangs on longer

This is exactly what the graphs show. Up to 4K they are near as dam it identical

Some people complain there not as responsive or low end power and kangarooing. I don’t know what’s going on. I suspect something isn’t 100%

but it might not be a fair test as I have the wrong gearbox in.

 

[jrkitching]

Anyone remember this post from 2014 with a rolling road printout (results are in the attachment in the linked post)?

That test showed the 60HP engine clearly producing both more torque and more power below 4000rpm.

 

[koalar]

Anyone remember this post from 2014 with a rolling road printout (results are in the attachment in the linked post)?

That test showed the 60HP engine clearly producing both more torque and more power below 4000rpm.

Nope

But two brand new engines on a engine dyno show it’s not the engine

No calculated rolling resistances or guess work

If the latter engine is down on power low down

Anyone remember this post from 2014 with a rolling road printout (results are in the attachment in the linked post)?

That test showed the 60HP engine clearly producing both more torque and more power below 4000rpm.

no before I own a Panda probably

Am I missing something

The two curves look identical just except offset by 200 rpm and mostly 2.5HP difference at the same revs I would bet that’s within the tolerance of the rolling road

And they approximately match fiats engine dyno graph

Tyres, gearbox ratio, error in calculating the loss maybe

I’d trust the accuracy of an actual engine measurement over a calculated which at 3K revs shows the 69 slightly ahead not behind

 

[DaveMcT]

My best mate from school (RIP) always had two stroke motorbikes. They needed nursing off the line plenty of revs and careful clutching. The plates wore out but replacement was easy and cheap. However, he drove his cars the same way, so his clutches got hammered. He even did it with a Montego diesel - an engine that would pull away on tickover. He never learned.

 

[vexorg]

Surprising, most bikes have wet multiplate clutches, they tend not to go so often since there is not much weight to move. And you didn't need that many revs for pulling away.

 

[DaveMcT]

Surprising, most bikes have wet multiplate clutches, they tend not to go so often since there is not much weight to move. And you didn't need that many revs for pulling away.

Absolutely and showed just how much the guy abused his clutches. My 900 Yamaha (all 250kg) had new clutch plates at 75K miles. For a total cost of £55 and an hour in the garage.