General 500e Claimed Range

[Most Easterly Pandas]

They still recommend not to use fast charging as a routine charging option. Its stated in the 2021 manual that will add premature wear to the battery pack. From what i’ve read in other forums its best to use a charger that its half in power as your battery. For example, a 42kw would charge with minimal wear at a 22kw speed or lower.

As said above, I don’t believe this for a minute as fast charging at 32amps is what most home and destination chargers will be doing.

To say it’ll add premature wear is laughable.

Rapid charging on the other hand can cause premature wear if there isn’t adequate active thermal management of the battery pack, like on the Nissan Leaf, however for all other EVs there isn’t likely to be an issue.

People get caught up on rapid charging rates causing issues but then conveniently forget just what power differences are involved at full regen under even moderate braking, and moderate to heavy acceleration. If rapid charge and discharge rates were really an issue then they’d be turning these right down to protect the battery pack.

 

[MrJamal]

Sorry for the confusion. To me fast/rapid charging are the same.

Normal type 2 charging is up to 11kw/h
Ccs type charging at charging stations goes from 22kw/h up to 85kw/h (maximum the 500e can charge) - this ia what about fiat owners manual cautions not to be used as daily/routine charging.

You can use wallboxes that can charge up to 22kw/h without any extra wear to the battery.

Hope its clear what i meant now

 

[gazz_bee]

So 600 miles in now. Displayed range in Sherpa mode has settled at 183 miles at full charge. Yet to pay for any electricity due to free local facilities, including a handy 43kW type 2 charger.

 

[timmycm850]

Hi All.

I've just read through all the replies.

Does the 500e have 3 power modes.

Ie
1 standard electric powered drive.
2 regen braked electric powered drive
3 sherpa mode.


Does the max range display vary as you change between modes.

Tim

 

[gazz_bee]

Hi All.

I've just read through all the replies.

Does the 500e have 3 power modes.

Ie
1 standard electric powered drive.
2 regen braked electric powered drive
3 sherpa mode.


Does the max range display vary as you change between modes.

Tim

Yes there are three modes and the displayed range changes between modes. The difference isn't about power delivery like, say eco mode in a twin air. It's regen braking moving from normal to range. Then maximum speed and HVAC limitations moving from range to Sherpa.

 

[timmycm850]

I've not used a 500e but.

What happens if you run on the settings with regen braking regarding the numbers. Ie.

From fully charged driving with regen braking. If you add the range left to the distance travelled will the total still calculate as a stable number or does it increase or decrease.

Tim.

Ps recently purchased a Panda sport hybrid as I felt our yearly mileage needed to be about 13k miles for the purchase price/running cost to benefit having an electric car compared to hybrid purchase price/running costs. In 7 months we've done 4k. I used £8000 to buy solar panels and battery pack for the house. Its so far provided 60% of our household electric use. So although we've used 11 tanks of petrol we've also generated 2300kwh(26 full 500e charges) of electricity to offset that.

The main problem being. I think the Panda has used at least 20 buckets of water to wash it.

 

[gazz_bee]

The displayed range is recalculated depending on which mode the car is in. I don't know if this is a fixed algorithm or if it learns based on usage. To give an idea from a full charge, displayed range is 160 miles on Normal, 167 Miles on Range and 183 miles on Sherpa mode. Speed above 50mph and HVAC influence range the most.

 

[timmycm850]

Most of this chat is all about displayed range at fully charged. I've always found the range display on an ice Fiat to be very sensible in its calculations based upon use. So my thoughts were how does the calculation work throughout the use of one full charge.

So when convenient is it possible that an actual owner could chart the progress of the range and distance travelled over the use of one full charge.


Many thanks. Tim

 

[gazz_bee]

In an attempt to answer your question, here goes. I recently did an 85 mile trip at 70mph which depleted 65% of the battery. With 35% battery remaining, the estimated range displayed was 55 miles which is about 10 miles further than would be achievable continuing at 70mph. So it seems the algorithm isn't using real time consumption data to recalculate range or, being a new car, is still learning. Incidentally, average consumption so far since purchase in November is 3.7miles/kWh.

 

[Chris shardlow]

Does anyone know if Fiat has reduced the range on the 500e in the UK?

All the left hand drive video reviews I have watched show over 300km of range at full charge. Which equates to the 199 miles they claim. However, all the UK reviews seem to show about 160 miles at full charge. I have just bought a La Prima Cabrio and it shows a max range (even in Sherpa mode) of 161 miles. This has nothing to do with how it has been driven as it has shown the same from brand new and even after a month of careful Sherpa driving it always only shows 161 miles at full charge.

In normal range it only shows 144 miles at full charge.

I feel a bit ripped off, seeing Fiat are claiming 199 miles and even show pictures of this on the car display in their brochures.

Interested to know what others are seeing as maximum miles on their displays

 

[Chris shardlow]

hi ya got same problem from new,new 500e in dec. each charge shows 100% batt to be only 165 miles in spite of there blurb am booked in at local distributer on tuesday see if they can tell me or at least find out will post result

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

hi ya got same problem from new,new 500e in dec. each charge shows 100% batt to be only 165 miles in spite of there blurb am booked in at local distributer on tuesday see if they can tell me or at least find out will post result

You don’t state your location, but if the UK it’ll simply be down to be time of year and near freezing temperatures. Perfectly normal.

 

[timmycm850]

thank you for the info. Always useful

Tim

 

[Carmine Santino]

I have the same issue, showing 161 miles at full charge. Let’s hope it gets better in the summer.
Does anyone know how to turn off the annoying email notifications whenever you start a charge? Every time I plug in I get two emails and two when I unplug. They’re driving me bonkers

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi

Did they tell you anything useful?

Or is it just that lights and heater are straining those cold battery cells..

@Chris shardlow

 

[911jd]

Good morning, I am new to The Fiat Forum, coming across it whilst Googling issues with the claimed range on the Fiat 500 EV. I have recently purchased a new Fiat 500 La Prima Bocelli for my wife. One of the things which attracted us to purchasing it, was the manufacturers claim of a 199 mile range. Whilst we seldom do any particularly long journeys, we do periodically travel to and back from Norfolk in the same day. The journey is a little over 72 miles each way which, even allowing for driving style, ambient temperature and utilising facilities like AC, should be easily achieved if the full charge range was indeed 199 miles. However, since purchasing the car, we have never seen anything more than 161 miles shown at full charge. Furthermore, upon driving the car, we are actually only achieving a real driving range of circa 145 miles.

Am I alone in thinking that this is actually misrepresentation on behalf of the manufacturer ? I own two other EVs, both of which do at least show the manufacturers claimed mileage range when fully charged. I have taken the matter up with our Fiat dealer, who either fails to grasp ( or chooses not to ) the basis of my concern.

 

[gazz_bee]

Good morning, I am new to The Fiat Forum, coming across it whilst Googling issues with the claimed range on the Fiat 500 EV. I have recently purchased a new Fiat 500 La Prima Bocelli for my wife. One of the things which attracted us to purchasing it, was the manufacturers claim of a 199 mile range. Whilst we seldom do any particularly long journeys, we do periodically travel to and back from Norfolk in the same day. The journey is a little over 72 miles each way which, even allowing for driving style, ambient temperature and utilising facilities like AC, should be easily achieved if the full charge range was indeed 199 miles. However, since purchasing the car, we have never seen anything more than 161 miles shown at full charge. Furthermore, upon driving the car, we are actually only achieving a real driving range of circa 145 miles.

Am I alone in thinking that this is actually misrepresentation on behalf of the manufacturer ? I own two other EVs, both of which do at least show the manufacturers claimed mileage range when fully charged. I have taken the matter up with our Fiat dealer, who either fails to grasp ( or chooses not to ) the basis of my concern.

Welcome to the forum. I'm of the view that manufacturer data on fuel economy and consequent range via any power source doesn't represent actual use in service but at least allows a comparison between different cars through a consistent, if flawed, test mechanism. Do you feel the misrepresentation is that the 100% charge doesn't show a figurative 199 mile range or that you don't get 199 miles out of a 100% charge?

If the former concern, last summer I regularly managed to get >161miles figurative range on charging so the 100% value does fluctuate based on usage and ambient conditions. See attached photo.
If the latter concern, how close are your other EVs getting to their published range and how does this compare to the 500e?

General consensus is that EVs in real usage tend to average 80% of their WLTP range and you appear to be in that ball park.

 

[IanML]

The range achieved is subject to many variables, e.g weather, wind, style of driving, etc. Just as the mpg of an ICE vehicle. The quoted range is established by the car being "driven" on a rolling road in controlled conditions, according to a standard scenario. This is never the same as a "typical" set of real world conditions and so is unlikely to be achieved in practice. However, it does permit comparison between other makes and models, so has some value.

The displayed range (commonly called the GoM or GuessoMeter for obvious reasons) is an estimate based on previous driving history, current temperature and, usually, the amount of power being consumed by auxiliaries such as lights, aircon, etc. Each manufacturer will use his own algorithms so comparison to other makes is not particularly valid.

A good way of assessing your likely range is by reference to the miles per kWh (m/kWh) which you can see on your trip display. The useable charge from the fully charged battery is supposed to be about 38 kWh, so, if you have a value for m/kWh that you can achieve, you should be able to calculate the expected range by multiplying the two parameters.

I have only very recently got my 500e, so have little practical experience yet, but my experience with a KIA SoulEV suggests that I should be able to get 150 miles in summer; however the GoM never goes higher than about 135 to 140. I have not put this to the test, as running the battery down below about 20% is supposedly not conducive to long term battery capacity preservation. I believe the the GoM is reflecting a history of cooler weather driving, which accounts for the pessimism.

If your car is very new, the GoM will reflect whetever it was initialised with (the default parameters), and will slowly move to reflect your usage. I think it would be prudent for the manufacturer to use somewhat pessimistic default parameters to avoid drivers getting stranded in initial usage.

Just to finish up. I have done my second recharge, and was able, from the GoM values, mileage and charge percentages to assess that the GoM was about 8% pessimistic. Of course, this relies on the displayed charge percentages being accurate, so take that with a pinch of salt. The car is two years old, with about 4000 miles on it, so the GoM is reflecting the previous owner's use.

 

[911jd]

Welcome to the forum. I'm of the view that manufacturer data on fuel economy and consequent range via any power source doesn't represent actual use in service but at least allows a comparison between different cars through a consistent, if flawed, test mechanism. Do you feel the misrepresentation is that the 100% charge doesn't show a figurative 199 mile range or that you don't get 199 miles out of a 100% charge?

If the former concern, last summer I regularly managed to get >161miles figurative range on charging so the 100% value does fluctuate based on usage and ambient conditions. See attached photo.
If the latter concern, how close are your other EVs getting to their published range and how does this compare to the 500e?

General consensus is that EVs in real usage tend to average 80% of their WLTP range and you appear to be in that ball park.

Good morning, I do indeed feel that the car should indicate 199 miles when fully charged. I am abundantly aware that there are many factors which will influence the actual mileage achieved, but I rather foolishly presumed that 199 would be the optimum starting point.
I run a Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo here in The UK, and it does at least show the manufacturers maximum claimed mileage range when fully charged. I have also run a Jaguar I-Pace in America since 2019, which also indicates the manufacturers claimed mileage range when fully charged. Both vehicles only achieve between 88% and 90% of the claimed maximum driving range, but I find this acceptable.
My issue is that I purchased the Fiat 500 EV on the basis of a claimed maximum range of 199 miles, whilst expecting to perhaps achieve between 170 to 180 actual miles driven. To be achieving an actual driving range of only 145 miles represents only a little over 72% of the manufacturers claimed maximum range. To me this smacks of total misrepresentation !
Both I and my wife love the Fiat 500 EV, but sadly feel that we have been conned by a totally false maximum mileage claim.

 

[IanML]

@gaz_bee: Impressive, 206 miles on the GoM. Do you know what m/kWh you achieved?

I noticed you were in Sherpa Mode, so I got into my car and checked. Currently my SoC is 98%, and the GoM shows 151 in Normal, 157 in Range, and 174 in Sherpa. ( I should have realised, as my KIA offers similarly modified data in the menu, for two cases, and I always use the Sherpa equivalent in my records.)

Based on that, if 911jd's 161 was in Normal Mode, you'd expect to see 186 miles in Sherpa.