Technical 500 1.2 ESP unavailable / ASR disconnect / fuel cut off

[jiminwatford]

A couple of days ago my mum was driving her 2009 500 1.2 and it got stuck in reverse, ie the stick wouldn't budge out of reverse

She turned it off and now it won't srart

On the dash it says ESP unavailable / ASR disconnect / fuel cut off / hill holder unavailable

I have left the battery disconnected for 5 minutes which didn't help

It has been getting stuck in gear evry so often

But now it won't start or turn over

 

[Baglady1990]

A couple of days ago my mum was driving her 2009 500 1.2 and it got stuck in reverse, ie the stick wouldn't budge out of reverse

She turned it off and now it won't srart

On the dash it says ESP unavailable / ASR disconnect / fuel cut off / hill holder unavailable

I have left the battery disconnected for 5 minutes which didn't help

It has been getting stuck in gear evry so often

But now it won't start or turn over

You could do with someone who has multiecuscan to diagnose any codes the body computer has stored

Have you tried to get the car back into gear? How is the clutch fluid? Have you had a look at the slave cylinder (under battery tray)? The hydraulic system can be a bit troublesome if not looked after
Any noises or smells before this issue? Could be a clutch issue but I’m sure someone will be along to offer further suggestions

 

[John202020]

Can you select the gears with the engine off, or is it actually stuck in gear

 

[jiminwatford]

With the engine off we can select gears

I haven't looked at the clutch system although the week before i asked a garage to and they couln't find any faults. I also asked them to flush the clutch fluid but they say an allen headed bolt has rounded off so they couldn't

I have booked it into a garage with a machine to read the codes

That should happen a week on Thursday

 

[portland_bill]

The gear sticking problem has been going on for a year now. Ignoring it will not make it better, and it will not fix itself. (https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/500-1-2-getting-stuck-in-gear.492560/#post-4632026)

We may have one issue here, or two separate ones, or one causing the other.

Sticking in gear is most likely to be clutch hydraulics. You should have replaced the slave cylinder last year, better still, the master cylinder too. If the clutch bleed screw is mangled, that is not an issue, as it disappears with the old cylider. No need to disturb it if replacing the cylinder. If your mechanic/garage thinks they cannot do the job without disturbing it, you need a better garage.

A clutch that is not releasing will prevent proper gear selection and deselection.

Not starting:
That is an all-encompassing description, we need more detail.
When you turn the key, does the engine turn? Does it spin but not start, or not turn?
Do you hear the starter engage, but not turn the engine?
When you turn the key, what happens to the warning lights and clock display? Do they dim, disappear, or remain lit as normal? A clock resetting usually means a weak battery.

If the hydraulics are ok, the clutch itself might have failed. If when stationary, the pedal is held down for prolonged periods, a lot of wear occurs to the release bearing and clutch diaphragm. The wear initially results in less travel, so not releasing, and final failure can bring lots of broken bits, which can stop the motor turning. Such a failure could explain both symptoms you have.

 

[jiminwatford]

I asked the mechanic if the damaged head would mean he couldn't replace it and he said yes, so i agree a different garage is required

When i turn the key all the lights come one and go off as normal. I can hear the fuel pump priming (i think that's what it is). Going to start the engine and it makes no noise at all. As if the battery wasn't connected. But the dash illumination stays on and doesn't dim but the ESP / AST / hillhold messages come on with a warning triangle

If i keep the key turned all the way it eventually says fuel cut off. And i noticed the key code light came on if i hold the key on for long enough

I left the battery disconnected all night to see and it made no difference

The garage i have it booked with, i will see if i can drop it off sooner and hopefully leave it with them for the week

 

[portland_bill]

A common issue with 500s and Pandas is the main battery cables, mostly the earth, corrode internally, breaking the connection. Often the connection is enough to pass a little current, so the dash lights up, but the current needed for the starter is too much.
A good check would be to inspect the earth cable, from battery to gearbox and to the car body. The ends may look OK, but wriggling the cable might change things, as lights go off and on. Any doubt, replace it.
The main cable from battery to starter could also be checked, but disconnect from the battery first, as this is unfused, and will weld itself to anything it earths against, destroy the battery, and possibly burn you seriously. So don't touch unless confident.
The fuel cut-off message conflicts with the pump priming. If the cut-off had triggered, it stops the pump. Are you sure it is the pump under the back seat you can hear?
If the last stop was a bit of a jolt, the cut-off may have operated. See the handbook page below for instructions to reset it. Otherwise, if the pump does run, low voltage is a usual cause of multiple warnings, so battery condition, or cable connections.

 

[John202020]

You "can" replace just the slave cylinder using the old pipework which would allow you to bleed the system with new fluid, it's better to replace all ie slave master and pipework at a cost, it may help in the short term, simply disconnect the new slave from its piping, keep the new pipework though

 

[jiminwatford]

It was the earth

I ended up taking it to an electrician

In case anyone else has this problem this is what it was doing:

I bump started it and over the next few miles more and more warning and failure messages came up on the screen:- power steering, airbag, EBD. the rev counter and speedo stopped working. the windows worked slowly and there was a whirring type noise coming from the back when lifting off the power (but in gear) which i think may have been the fuel pump

The auto electrician say the replaced the earth from beneaththe battery to the chassis leg (their words) and all those lights etc have gone

Whilst there he had a look and says the clutch release arm is very rusty. So that's a thought when we pursure the 'getting stuck in gear' problem

So the two problems appear to have been separate

Thanks for the advice above. It got the diagnosis right. Fortunately i was able to find someone capable and in a position i could pay for the work to be done

Thanks
James

 

[John202020]

It was the earth

The auto electrician say the replaced the earth from beneaththe battery to the chassis leg (their words) and all those lights etc have gone

This comes up so often the earth cable should be a routine replacement at 6 years old or on purchase second hand?

 

[portland_bill]

This comes up so often the earth cable should be a routine replacement at 6 years old or on purchase second hand?

This seems to be more of a problem for 500s than Pandas, unless of course, there are more 500 than Panda owners on here. Quite likely, as the 500 will attract enthusiastic owners more than Pandas.
I shall jinx mine now, and say at 16 years old, mine is still on its original cables, with no signs of problems.

 

[chris3234]

This seems to be more of a problem for 500s than Pandas, unless of course, there are more 500 than Panda owners on here. Quite likely, as the 500 will attract enthusiastic owners more than Pandas.
I shall jinx mine now, and say at 16 years old, mine is still on its original cables, with no signs of problems.

I suspect the higher value's of used 500s mean more are kept running into old age then the panda's