Technical 4x4 ta, mpg question

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Technical 4x4 ta, mpg question

My brakes are silent as the grave, forwards and backwards, but I'm still puzzled at the 10mpg difference in fuel consumption between PaulD and me, especially as we both spend much of our time trundling back and forth across East Anglia at a steady 50-60 mph!
 
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I'm getting 41 mpg in my 4x4 TA and that's with a lot of M1 motorway miles at 50mph.
 
Had my TA Cross serviced about 4 weeks ago, pads changed and now not so much as a squeak from the rear brakes. Of course they might have done something else too but if they did they didn't mention it. Currently averaging about 40mpg as I have done a fair few long journeys recently. Air Con has been on from day 1 and Eco button and stop/start disabled as I have no interest in either function.

50 to 65 mph and no hills and economy can be as high as 60mpg, add gradients, acceleration and "pressing on" and motorways see you down in the low 40's or even high 30's. City driving kills TA economy (at least for me) 33-36mpg is the norm. However I've said it before and I'll say it again I didn't buy the Cross for its economy, it matters little to me. I am happy enough with the economy I do get and more than happy with how the Panda makes me feel. At the moment for my requirements Fiat have built me the perfect car and it's not often in my motoring career that I have been able to say that?
 
Had my TA Cross serviced about 4 weeks ago, pads changed and now not so much as a squeak from the rear brakes. Of course they might have done something else too but if they did they didn't mention it. Currently averaging about 40mpg as I have done a fair few long journeys recently. Air Con has been on from day 1 and Eco button and stop/start disabled as I have no interest in either function.

50 to 65 mph and no hills and economy can be as high as 60mpg, add gradients, acceleration and "pressing on" and motorways see you down in the low 40's or even high 30's. City driving kills TA economy (at least for me) 33-36mpg is the norm. However I've said it before and I'll say it again I didn't buy the Cross for its economy, it matters little to me. I am happy enough with the economy I do get and more than happy with how the Panda makes me feel. At the moment for my requirements Fiat have built me the perfect car and it's not often in my motoring career that I have been able to say that?

Agree with all that. Like u I have little interest in economy but I was just interested in the apparent marked difference pre and post service. Probably my imagination. On motorway last couple days it's up to mid 40's again!
 
It seems Air Con only changes fuel economy at low speeds/town driving.

From Auto-Express:

Air-conditioning

The first test simply involved pushing a button on the centre console to activate the air-con. There was a slight change in engine revs as Alan did it, then he and Anthony headed out on to the route.

Sixteen minutes later, they were back – with some dramatic results. “It’s made an eight per cent difference,” explained Anthony. “The mpg has gone from the baseline of 30.5mpg to 28mpg.” His computer highlighted the biggest difference was on the city course. “If I isolate that 0.8-mile stage from the whole route, Alan was getting only 20.2mpg: it was 25.6mpg on the baseline run.” He explained that because the engine revs were lower, the vehicle is running slower, so there’s an effect on economy. “What’s also interesting is that when we were on the bowl, the difference in fuel use between the baseline run and with air-con on is virtually nothing. They were both around 39mpg.”

EDIT: - here's a link to their full article on "myths about fuel economy":

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/31861/mpg-mythbusters
 
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Check the oil level. My extortionately priced but incompetently completed service left way to much oil in it. So much so that it caused a noticeable drop in mpg. I emptied a litre out and it still showed 3/4 from the top on the dipstick!
 
It seems Air Con only changes fuel economy at low speeds/town driving.
From Auto-Express:

“What’s also interesting is that when we were on the bowl, the difference in fuel use between the baseline run and with air-con on is virtually nothing. They were both around 39mpg.”

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/31861/mpg-mythbusters

I'm not convinced that tests on a 150bhp 4-cylinder diesel Astra are transferrable to an 85bhp 2-cylinder petrol Panda, especially as my (admittedly inaccurate) tests on my Panda TA gave a different conclusion.
 
Hi all, have began to wonder how much MPG difference there is between the twin air and the MJ engines.
My 4x4 MJ, which has just crossed the 20k miles mark averages in the high 50s mpg on a mix of urban traffic jams, open motorway at 70ish mph and occasional offroad green lanes. Average on trip 'B' over past 16,000 miles is 56mpg - and aircon often 'on'

I recenly reset the 'trip A' computer and drove 'normally' but avoided long uphill stretches, showed 62mpg after a 20-30mile drive. (so better than 'official' average). Seems pretty good to me... (and that's with the Fiat roofbars on too)
 
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My brakes are silent as the grave, forwards and backwards, but I'm still puzzled at the 10mpg difference in fuel consumption between PaulD and me, especially as we both spend much of our time trundling back and forth across East Anglia at a steady 50-60 mph!

I'd check they haven't taken 10 PSI from your tyres.!!;)

AFAIK the aircon may be @5%,
BUT HOT weather is usually a good thing for TA's MPG, :cool:


still averaging 51 in my Punto TA,(y)
Charlie
 
I only had that sort of an average from my first mk 3 MJ. I have though got an initial high average mpg 50's even touching 62-63, when I reset the trip,but then it would gradually drop to mid 40's. Can only put it down to driving style, if I keep the speed down and go through the gears without too many revs then yes, I probably would maintain a high average. Currently getting bout 46 from new Cross, hopefully this will improve ?
 
My Mrs gets the same average mpg (low 30s) in her X3 3.0d that i typically see in the Panda. Okay, she intersperses a few more longer journeys than the Panda, but to counter this she also tows a horse box each week...

In my view, the Panda T/A drinks fuel in a way that other small (and large) cars don't.

Another example is a local pal who drives a base model Skoda Citigo over exactly the same commute to the railway station and back each day. He regularly gets mid 50 to the gallon.

FIAT should buy in your engines from BMW or VW if they can't figure out how to do it themselves!! They would appear to pursue CO2 ratings over actual fuel economy.

Ok, some words said in jest here, but I don't think i'm alone in these views...
 
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I think there's something in what you write, however, as the TA gives the - heavier, less aerodynamic and slightly less efficient chassis-wise - 4x4 straight line performance that's within a gnat's cock of the previous model 100HP up to 90 mph - I've done 27k miles in the 4x4 and did 50+k in the 100HP - I don't think it does too badly.
 
In my view, the Panda T/A drinks fuel in a way that other small (and large) cars don't

Even allowing for the house-brick aerodynamics, the extra weight and friction of the 4x4 mechanicals, and the fact that Fiat manage to squeeze 85hp (or 90 in the Cross) from a small engine, the fuel economy is still pants when doing anything other than a steady cruise below 60 mph. It's instructive to look at the instant consumption read-out when accelerating or going uphill. There's a long, gentle climb on a dual carriageway near where I live. It's not much of a climb - this is Suffolk, after all - but even being very gentle on the throttle, in order to retain a constant speed the fuel consumption drops to well below 10 mpg!
 
To Crossman: my 'trick' is to avoid going over 2000 rpm* (MJ engine) and also not to labour it below 1400 or so -- basically following or pre-empting the 'gear change' indicator). As revs rise there a point where suddenly the engine note changes to become noticeably more 'rattly' - this happens between about 1800 and 2000 rpm but depends on engine 'load'. Change gear at or just before then and it seems to be happy. Remember, diesels give best pulling power at low revs - no point going about 2000 rpm as lower revs in next gear will actually give more 'oomph'.

*clearly once in top, you cross 2000 rpm at about 55mph - so from there on, yes the revs rise
 
So far I'm getting c 40 mpg (700miles on the clock, no stop start and v. little eco button). Comparing it with my old 1.2 2WD panda - I used to get c50-55mpg on local easy-ish running and 45 -50 on longer fast journeys (70/80mph) or more spirited driving. The strength of the 1.2 IMO was consistency (and a sweet engine), the temptation with the TA is using the "thrust" which I think affects the mpg worse than a heavy foot in the 1.2. I don't think the old version 1.2 4x4 would have got near the 2WD for mpg (or performance) and I would be interested to see what a 2wd TA panda gets vs the 4x4s... Personally I think the 4x4 extra weight and transmission drag will make a difference.

(Still wondering if use of the eco button would make much difference to economy... will have to give it a decent go sometime)
If I get to average around 40 - 45 I will be happy, even 40 would do.

regards

Roger
 
So far I'm getting c 40 mpg (700miles on the clock, no stop start and v. little eco button). Comparing it with my old 1.2 2WD panda - I used to get c50-55mpg on local easy-ish running and 45 -50 on longer fast journeys (70/80mph) or more spirited driving. The strength of the 1.2 IMO was consistency (and a sweet engine), the temptation with the TA is using the "thrust" which I think affects the mpg worse than a heavy foot in the 1.2. I don't think the old version 1.2 4x4 would have got near the 2WD for mpg (or performance) and I would be interested to see what a 2wd TA panda gets vs the 4x4s... Personally I think the 4x4 extra weight and transmission drag will make a difference.

(Still wondering if use of the eco button would make much difference to economy... will have to give it a decent go sometime)
If I get to average around 40 - 45 I will be happy, even 40 would do.

regards

Roger

40 is quite attainable if you're just slightly light footed, with 42 available when (if) the weather's hot.
 
I've just completed a return journey to the Peak District and back in the Cross TA. Two passengers plus driver for the journey, then four of us in the Peaks. A total distance of just over 400 miles and average 52.2 mpg. The driving was mostly A roads including a 40 mile stretch of the A1. The journey time from Norwich to Matlock was three hours and from Castleton back to Norwich 3.30 minutes. Both journey times in very close agreement with that predicted by the satnav and by Google maps. Admittedly the journey was traffic free but it also included a lot of steep climbs in the Peak District and access down gravel roads to quarries.
 
I think that so much of this is down to driving style. In my own experience of driving a TwinAir 4x4, I have found that the engine is quite capable of producing averages of 50mpg+, but it's also very easy to drop that down to 40-or-so-mpg if being less cautious.

I firmly believe that the "Eco" button does help, not so much by changing the parameters, but by delivering a more graduated throttle response, allowing more precise modulation of the throttle to maintain speed or gently accelerate. That's why some get similar mpg with it turned off - you can achieve the same result by being feather-light on the throttle.

The TwinAir is deceptive in it's delivery - even in Eco-mode, I've found it's possible to keep up with the flow of traffic on small throttle openings, delivering much better mpg. It just delivers that in a deceptive way. And this is where I think many go 'wrong' - because the 85/90bhp performance is there, along with corresponding torque at low revs and moderate-large throttle openings, coupled to having the Eco-function switched off, we use more fuel than strictly necessary. I wouldn't be surprised if the TwinAir delivers performance not dissimilar to the 1.2 4-cyl engine, whilst the TwinAir is in Eco, with corresponding mpg, but it feels slower because of that deceptive delivery?

The best I've had over ~180miles was 58mpg over mostly motorway, sitting at 50mph through roadworks and 60-70mph on open motorway. That's not far off Fiat's claims.... Remember that all cars nowadays are tuned to deliver under test conditions which involves acceleration cycles probably slower than those typically used day-to-day on the road. Also, "extra-urban" on those tests is a steady 56mph, not the 70+mph that most are trying to maintain and expect that same economy.
 
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Sorry, but extra urban isn't at constant 56mph (that was the old test, many years back)

The full test (urban and extra urban) is described here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_European_Driving_Cycle . Key to note is the whole 'journey' is only 11km long, and a good amount of time is sat stationary with the car in neutral during the 'urban' part (which of course means the engine turns off with stop-start). It only spends 10 seconds at 120kph (about 70mph) - the overall average is just 20mph. Its hardly 'realistic' of most people's driving.
 
My mistake, Herts Hillhopper - I stand corrected! However, the principle remains - the test is not conducted at high-speeds for long journeys, so expecting 65.7mpg (the test result for a 4x4 TwinAir on extra-urban cycle) iwhilst cruising at 70+mph is impractical. I've always viewed it that if it is possible to get to the combined cycle result on a longer run, you're doing well, in this case 57.6mpg (looking at the brochure) - I've found that possible with careful driving at a steady 60-70mph.

Regardless, considering I have a friend with a Diesel Freeleander that struggles to top 30mpg, we're not doing too bad, eh?!
 
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