3points for an illegal tyre.. but was it illegal?!

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3points for an illegal tyre.. but was it illegal?!

so if he isnt wearing his uniform you can drive off?

great idea

While you do that they will radio ahead with your cars details and reg and get uniform to stop you down the road.

If you make it home no doubt from the details obtained the cars registered keeper will return to your home address, they will knock on the door and enquire why you drove off ;)
 
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If I was a magistrate I would ask you two questions.....

Was the tyre fitted to the car at the time of the MOT and the alledged offence the same one and can you prove it?
The police officer should have taken the serial number of the tyre. That number can be used by either side to prove its the tyre in question.



(which may be pointless because who says Magistrates can physically tell a worn tyre from a servicable one anyway?)
The magistrates will not measure the tyre or judge the legality of it by looking at it. They are there to judge the evidence put before them and are not allowed to substitute their own evidence for that of the defence or prosecution.
 
As Jai says, the paperwork has an option to go to court.

I would get an independent qualified opinion about the tyre from an MOT tester or somebody similar who can
(a) prove they are qualified to make legally binding decisions about tyres
(b) is prepared to put in writing on headed notepaper that the tyre in question is legal
(c) is prepared to go to court to give evidence to that effect if necessary.

If the tester agrees with the officer - take the points. If he says the tyre is clearly legal the prosecution may well drop the case. If they don't its off to court for a trial.

Nothing is entirely predictable because you can't ever know exactly what will be said in court but, courts are obliged to give the defence the benefit of any doubt. So if the tester is clear that the tyre is legal you should be OK.
 
I'm bemused by the workins of the courts so I change my tyres before they become dangerous, (note, NOT illegal) but whenever I think they should be changed, and I judge by using my 20p piece edge.

I'm amused at the length of a discussion that wouldnt be taking place if the tyre had been changed... bearing in mind that the most worn area is probably the most used area of contact.

I stick with my view that 2mm of tread across the whole tyre is preferable to running tyres to the legal minimum....
 
I stick with my view that 2mm of tread across the whole tyre is preferable to running tyres to the legal minimum....

Your bang on there Ffoxy, id even say that less than 3mm you would be in trouble in bad weather conditions.

The cars i drive at work get a lot of use, and typically the tyres only last 5-10k. They get changed well before 1.6mm as they cant be trusted that low, usual brands are bridgestone or goodyear eagles.
 
Aparently the Police Law is not the same as MOT law, a local MOT tester today said my tyre is legal, and printed off the page of MOT guidelines on tyres where it says the edges outside 75% of central can be devoid of tread (ie bald) and still meet the legal pass standard)

but i went to the police station, and an officer showed me from there offences book, where it says the central 75% must have 1.6mm and the remaining surface must have visible grooves.

so there is two different sets of information? my car will pass an mot and be legal that way, but be illegal under police rules.

also, if it is illegal, should he of let me drive the vehicle away? or should he have had my car recovered as it is unsafe for the road?
 
Does every tyre have a unique/individual serial number? I thought the manufacturers only went as far as date/batch and various other production related codes?
 
A little letter i just knocked up to send off to the powers that be.

Dear Sir/ Madam.
On Sunday 6th December I was stopped and pulled over by a Police Officer in Uttoxeter. The officer proceeded to check over my car, including insurance, tax and MOT. My car had passed an MOT 11 days earlier on the 25th November, so the officer found no fault. However, to my surprise he gave me a fixed penalty notice due to wear on the inside of the front drivers side tyre, whilst he commented that the rest of the tyre had sufficient tread he said he had no option because “this edge had more wear, so it had made the grooves on that edge no longer visible”.
I was issued with a fixed penalty Notice for “Offence code 1509- Tyre grooves not visible” I signed the notice, took it and went on my way.
When I got home I explained the situation to my father, who raised a couple of concerns with me:
1) If the tyre was illegal due to being unsafe, should the officer not have asked for me to have had the vehicle recovered from the roadside or changed the tyre in question due to the fact it was unsafe, rather than let me drive home on it.
2) If the car passed an MOT 11 days earlier, how was the tyre now illegal and unsafe in such a short space of time, especially as I do so little miles?

So on the following morning, 7th December, I took the car to an MOT station and queried this with them. They checked the VOSA Handbook and proceeded to show me why my tyre was in fact legal and would pass an MOT. Section 4.1 of the VOSA MOT handbook relates specifically to tyres, and there is a section which covers the reason I was given a fixed penalty. It specifically states here:
“Reason for Rejection – 1) The grooves of the tread pattern are not at least 1.6mm throughout a continuous band compromising the central three-quarters of the breadth of tread and 2) round the entire circumference of the tyre.
Note: Each side of the central band of the tyre can be devoid of tread (i.e. ‘bald’) and still meet the pass standard.
Therefore, as long as the central 75% of the tyre has at least 1.6mm of continuous tread the tyre would still be legal, even if the outer 12.5% on each side is devoid of tread or even “bald”. The MOT officer and I measured the offending tyre, and the part which was devoid of tread was well within the 12.5% and there was at least 1.6mm of tread throughout the rest of the tyre. So this is why the MOT station said my tyre should be classed as legal. I asked the MOT servicer for a copy of this sheet, which he was happy to give me, and I have included this for your attention.
As It is a legal requirement to have an MOT every 12months, I would believe it to be the case that all information provided on the MOT be legally correct.

Therefore as I have been assured by an independent MOT Officer that my tyre is legal, I contest the Fixed Penalty Notice issued to me and enclose photographic evidence to support my claim. I would be grateful if you would review the position, otherwise I have no option but to contest the case in court.
 
Nice one. I've nothing against promoting safety on the roads, but I dislike more police/government/courts moving the goal posts. Errosion of civil rights little by little.


cheers, i agree, im all for road safety, and i must admit, the tyre does need changing, but i dont feel its right to be penalised for an illegal offence when another body would deam it legal.. not realy fair
 
How about showing the forum a picture of the tyre in question, particularly the 'missing' tread? You might get some further responses on how to deal with the situation if you do.

One thing to remember though, an MOT only proves that the car was legal at the time (date) it was carried out. It's not a legal guarantee that the car is still roadworthy once it has left the MOT test station. Out of interest, is the MOT tester prepared to give evidence in court?
 
How about showing the forum a picture of the tyre in question, particularly the 'missing' tread? You might get some further responses on how to deal with the situation if you do.

One thing to remember though, an MOT only proves that the car was legal at the time (date) it was carried out. It's not a legal guarantee that the car is still roadworthy once it has left the MOT test station. Out of interest, is the MOT tester prepared to give evidence in court?


yeh im going to take some pics, but im not saying it was legal at the mot so it must be ok now, im saying, "you said it was illegal last night, but another MOT centre said it was legal today" i must note, it's not the same place that passed it on the MOT 2weeks ago that said it was ok today
 
How about showing the forum a picture of the tyre in question, particularly the 'missing' tread? You might get some further responses on how to deal with the situation if you do.

One thing to remember though, an MOT only proves that the car was legal at the time (date) it was carried out. It's not a legal guarantee that the car is still roadworthy once it has left the MOT test station. Out of interest, is the MOT tester prepared to give evidence in court?

hes taken the car to an MOT station AFTER being pulled and they've deemed it legal (y) so it cant be been legal for the first MOT, then went illegal (got a ticket) and then back to legal :p (EDIT: i type too slow :p)

one thing i'd suggest coyle, any 'evidence' you're sending along with the letter... make sure its a copy and not the original. seeing as it can be quite easy to 'lose' or 'not recieve' your letter.. and then you'd be prety screwed (y)
 
yeh im going to take some pics, but im not saying it was legal at the mot so it must be ok now, im saying, "you said it was illegal last night, but another MOT centre said it was legal today" i must note, it's not the same place that passed it on the MOT 2weeks ago that said it was ok today

Why didn't you take it back to the place that originally issued the MOT? Especially as it's in their best interest to back up your claim and would be more likely to give evidence in court. It's their MOT licence that's at stake here so they won't want one of their MOT'd vehicles being deemed unworthy after they've issued a ticket.

hes taken the car to an MOT station AFTER being pulled and they've deemed it legal (y) so it cant be been legal for the first MOT, then went illegal (got a ticket) and then back to legal :p (EDIT: i type too slow :p)

Yes it can, because it would have to be proven that the tyre that received the ticket is the same tyre that was deemed legal by the second MOT station. Did the 2nd MOT place note the serial number of the tyre? If they did and it matches the Police record (assuming the Police noted it) then it is likely to be case closed. That is only if the regulations used by the MOT place override that used by the Police, which is something that maybe JohnW can clarify.
 
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The far left of the pic is the side deemed "devoid of tread" but thats within the 12.5% margin which is allowed to be bald.. (by MOT Rules ofcourse)
but i do know the police law i was shown today states the outer and inner 12.5% 's must be showing tread pattern, but the MOT rule contradicts this...
 
What's the tread depth at various points across the tyre?


its no less than 1.8mm at anypoint except the whole bald edge..
the officer used his depth gauge at the time, and said "its very close, but legal" but because there is no groove visible on that edge thats why he could issue a ticket, and he used the code 1509- tyre groove not visible
 
I wasn't aware that MOT testers work to different standards than the police and now I do know it doesn't make any kind of sense.

The law is contained in regulation 27 of the The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986. You will need to search the government law databases to find the original but you can see what it says here

http://www.etyres.co.uk/uk-tyre-law

Reason I say you need the original is because firstly they amend these regulations all the time and it may have changed (although I don't think it has - but its you in front of the court and not me so you need to be sure). Secondly a court won't accept a print off of a tyre company site but should accept a print off from an official government site.
 
its no less than 1.8mm at anypoint except the whole bald edge..
the officer used his depth gauge at the time, and said "its very close, but legal" but because there is no groove visible on that edge thats why he could issue a ticket, and he used the code 1509- tyre groove not visible

Take a look at the picture below as this gives a good indicator of the "central 3/4 of the tread" that's needed at 1.6mm to make the tyre legal. I found it on this site.

http://www.tyresave.co.uk/tyreinfo.html

Now, is it possible you could photograph your tyre again, except with a ruler or a tape measure showing across the whole width of the tyre?
 

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