Technical 3 years standing Panda 1.1 resurrection.

[Richsvan]

HI I’ve a 2009 1.1 that I’m trying to get going. It’s my mothers car and it’s been sat unused for about 3 years and rarely used prior to that (sub 8k miles). The battery charged up ok, but I wouldn’t start as the starter had seized. I freed that off but it still won’t start. I did get it going with easy start spray but it ran really rough. My fault code reader gives the following codes P0460 and U1602.
Any tips appreciated as I’m keen to get this running and MOT’d.
Thanks
Rich

 

[Richsvan]

Actually a good point. It’s a fine balance between fixing this car and disposing of it. It’s got a lot going for it 1 owner, full fiat service history (up until 3 years ago) and under 8 thousand miles. But also there are negatives, the biggest, that it doesn’t run, but also it’s red and has a major lacquer failure on the bumper, bonnet and roof. I like a challenge and like to think that I could get it running get it MoT’d and it could be worth a fair bit more than I’d get by disposing of it. But I don’t think I can risk spending too much on parts, as the end value would be restricted by the cosmetic s. The problem is that it’s at my parents house and I need to move it soon, so MOT is needed as otherwise transporting it would be another cost. At the moment it’s only cost me a battery charge, and the timing tool from Amazon.

sorry just interested as It would help to decide how far I go with this. What do you think it could be worth if I get it running and MoT’d, obviously the lacquer is a big negative to factor in? A couple of pics attached.

 

[DriverDave]

HI I’ve a 2009 1.1 that I’m trying to get going. It’s my mothers car and it’s been sat unused for about 3 years and rarely used prior to that (sub 8k miles). The battery charged up ok, but I wouldn’t start as the starter had seized. I freed that off but it still won’t start. I did get it going with easy start spray but it ran really rough. My fault code reader gives the following codes P0460 and U1602.
Any tips appreciated as I’m keen to get this running and MOT’d.
Thanks
Rich

If you haven’t already done so, replace the fuel before you do anything else.

 

[koalar]

sorry just interested as It would help to decide how far I go with this. What do you think it could be worth if I get it running and MoT’d, obviously the lacquer is a big negative to factor in? A couple of pics attached.

Lacquer/clear coat has peeled/delaminated

There's no easy fix

Each effected panel needs the top taking back to solid paint all over and the clear coat reapplying

Sound simple, but it's not

 

[Richsvan]

Yes, it would be nice to thick you could just rub it back and polish it up but I’m under no illusion that that this would likely end up with a re-paint. Of course you’d never match the doors tailgate wings etc. Any kind of professional paint work likely means I’d never see a return. My plan was was to hit it with vicious mode on the jet washer to remove any loose flakes, polish up the exposed paint and sell it on as a nice little runaround with cosmetic issues. Of course this is assuming I can get it started and MoT’d. I could be flogging a dead horse but I can’t bring myself to think that a sub 8k car should be scrapped. Staying positive, for now!

 

[Richsvan]

So mixed news today. I can’t drain the fuel because the fuel pump doesn’t work, the fuse is ok (assuming I found the right fuse F08).
But I did try starting the engine again with easy start and it ran much much better.
So I didn’t go as far as checking the timing instead I took the back seat out and tried knocking the fuel pump incase it would free up, it didn’t. So I had a go at removing the pump with the tap tap method on the ring. That did not work, so I guess I’ll need a tool or any suggestions?
So this had me thinking back to the fault code P0460. Could this be indicative of of a fuel pump fault?
Also, is there anyway to check the pump or check the wiring? Just to be sure…. A pump won’t be too cheap and there’s no guarantee there’s nothing else wrong.

 

[koalar]

Leave it with me I will post a couple of videos tomorrow

The pump only works for about 2 seconds from ignition on

Fuse doesn't sound right it can vary a bit with age and model, info should be right in the owner manual

On my car 1.2 euro 5 it's F21 and T10 under the bonnet.

Make sure the Inertia cut off switch hasn't tripped there I a button under the passenger seat

 

[bugsymike]

On one of my daughters car a Grande Punto the fuel pump relay wasn't powering up due to a trigger wire from the ECU corroded through.
I would first check using a multimeter what power and earth etc. you are getting at the pump in the fuel tank plug.Does the fuel tank level sensor work, i.e. are you showing fuel in the tank at the instrument gauge.
I did show a photo of the tool I used to undo the large plastic ring holding the fuel pump on a previous thread, but I can't see it easily. They can be very tight and a fiddle to refit. So check for power first.
Do be careful re sparks and petrol!!!

 

[koalar]

Car sounds great

Right turn ignition on there should be a buzzing from the pump

If not back probe the purple and yellow wire, finding a good ground isn't easy

Here's mine T pin into the back of the connector (yellow and purple) and a seat belt bolt as a ground

You can hear the pump and ignition going on and off

Because I am using a seperate ground the Inertia cut off switch is bypased

If there is no voltage here the problem is towards the battery, if there is voltage here it's the Inertia switch, ground or pump

Red and purple to the same ground should measures less than 1 ohm if the Inertia switch is okay

 

[koalar]

The same relay T09 is also used to power the coils so by reckoning it must be fine as its running

And for post 2008 1.1 it should be F22 for the fuel pump

 

[Richsvan]

Thanks for the vids etc. I’ve more to check then, that’s fine, I appreciate the tips. Unfortunately I’m on my holiday now So there’s nothing more that I can do for a week or too, but I’ll let you know how I get on. Thanks

 

[jrkitching]

What do you think it could be worth if I get it running and MoT’d

Pre covid, I'd have said don't bother spending time on it.

But the used car market has changed completely since then. Cars like this are worth enough to get them running again, providing you can do most or all of the work yourself. If you can't do the work yourself, then financially you'd do better to sell it as it is - it's likely to be bought by someone who can.

As to value, everything depends on whether this is the Euro4 1.1 active Eco (introduced in 2009, so yours is at the changeover point). These have £35 annual RFL and are ULEZ compliant, so any such car in working order with a year's MOT must surely be worth £2k+ today. You'll possibly get the best price selling it in or close to London. The earlier 1.1's have £150/£180 tax, must pay the daily charge in the ULEZ, and will be worth much less. Just check the V5C to make sure it's Euro 4.

If your aim is to get this working and sell it for the money, only spend what is absolutely necessary, and don't spend anything on trying to improve it cosmetically. It's definitely not worth trying to do anything about the peeling lacquer.

You'll need to sell privately to get anything like what it's worth; the trade will give you practically nothing for it.

This car's value is in its function, not its form. It could give someone several years of just about the most economical motoring it's possible to get.

 

[koalar]

If your aim is to get this working and sell it for the money, only spend what is absolutely necessary, and don't spend anything on trying to improve it cosmetically. It's definitely not worth trying to do anything about the peeling lacquer.

Correct,

A good wash and wax would protect what's left

You'll need to sell privately to get anything like what it's worth; the trade will give you practically nothing for it.

This car's value is in its function, not its form. It could give someone several years of just about the most economical motoring it's possible to get.

Correct

 

[Richsvan]

Sorry I’ve been on my hols so nothing has moved on. Luckily it’s got the cheap tax and will be suitable for the low emissions zones. I don’t think I’ll be able to take advantage of the London market but perhaps Bristol and Bath instead. My major driver is that I want to save it, but I can’t throw too much money at it.
Hopefully I’ll get to do those checks on the fuel pump this weekend.

 

[Yolanda]

Sorry I’ve been on my hols so nothing has moved on. Luckily it’s got the cheap tax and will be suitable for the low emissions zones. I don’t think I’ll be able to take advantage of the London market but perhaps Bristol and Bath instead. My major driver is that I want to save it, but I can’t throw too much money at it.
Hopefully I’ll get to do those checks on the fuel pump this weekend.

I wouldn't write off the London market from where you live. People will travel for the right car for them. I sold a Jag to a guy who came down from Scotland who paid the full asking price. I know of someone who went from Southampton to Huddersfield to buy a car.
Get the car running as it should, clean it up and preferably a 12 month or at least 8 month MOT and I'm sure it will sell.
Good Luck.

 

[Richsvan]

Well I conducted the tests and confirmed that indeed it was the fuel pump at fault.

I sourced one from an eBay breakers fitted it and it starts straight up.

I managed to manoeuvre it around on the drive and check underneath. It looks like control arm bushes are cracked so I guess a pair of new lwr arms are required. Also I noted a small hole in the back of the exhaust which wasn’t easy to see, but was obvious with the engine running. I may try to weld it up, I’ll probably end up chasing my tail but it’s worth a go. New front brakes required as well, as disks are pitted.

Now I know it runs, it’s time to spend a little more money for the MOT.

 

[kmor panda]

Well I conducted the tests and confirmed that indeed it was the fuel pump at fault.

I sourced one from an eBay breakers fitted it and it starts straight up.

I managed to manoeuvre it around on the drive and check underneath. It looks like control arm bushes are cracked so I guess a pair of new lwr arms are required. Also I noted a small hole in the back of the exhaust which wasn’t easy to see, but was obvious with the engine running. I may try to weld it up, I’ll probably end up chasing my tail but it’s worth a go. New front brakes required as well, as disks are pitted.

Now I know it runs, it’s time to spend a little more money for the MOT.

The exhaust box has a small hole at its rear designed to allow water to drain from the box. Some people percieve this as a hole / fault but it is there by design. You replaced the fuel pump in this - ensure that the replacement is sealed otherwise you get a smell of petrol in the cabin plus low pressure in the fuel tank (as it is a pressurised fuel tank).

 

[koalar]

Well I conducted the tests and confirmed that indeed it was the fuel pump at fault.

I sourced one from an eBay breakers fitted it and it starts straight up.

I managed to manoeuvre it around on the drive and check underneath. It looks like control arm bushes are cracked so I guess a pair of new lwr arms are required. Also I noted a small hole in the back of the exhaust which wasn’t easy to see, but was obvious with the engine running. I may try to weld it up, I’ll probably end up chasing my tail but it’s worth a go. New front brakes required as well, as disks are pitted.

Now I know it runs, it’s time to spend a little more money for the MOT.

Cool it's alive

 

[Richsvan]

The exhaust box has a small hole at its rear designed to allow water to drain from the box. Some people percieve this as a hole / fault but it is there by design. You replaced the fuel pump in this - ensure that the replacement is sealed otherwise you get a smell of petrol in the cabin plus low pressure in the fuel tank (as it is a pressurised fuel tank).

Thanks. Regarding the fuel pump it was hard to remove and hard to install. The tool I bought was not very good, but worked to a point. I will go back and check for smells and leaks once the car is back on the road and sloshing around.

I have to agree that hole in the silencer definitely does drain water (see video). What worried me a little is that I can feel a small blow of gas through the hole as well. Is this supposed to happen. Just trying to make sure it would get through the MOT.

 

[koalar]

Thanks. Regarding the fuel pump it was hard to remove and hard to install. The tool I bought was not very good, but worked to a point. I will go back and check for smells and leaks once the car is back on the road and sloshing around.

I have to agree that hole in the silencer definitely does drain water (see video). What worried me a little is that I can feel a small blow of gas through the hole as well. Is this supposed to happen. Just trying to make sure it would get through the MOT.

Looks like corrosion to me

Here's a weep hole on a ford

Never seen one on a panda but it will depend on the supplier

Anyhow it shouldn't sound like that

Are you sure there isn't another hole

If you block the exhaust with your palm can you hear it escaping anywhere else

Sounds a bit blowy for such a small hole so far back? Mybe just the sound on the video

Last time I bought one new was a few years ago and they were just over £20 each for centre and backbox including clamps,

 

[jrkitching]

I have to agree that hole in the silencer definitely does drain water (see video). What worried me a little is that I can feel a small blow of gas through the hole as well. Is this supposed to happen. Just trying to make sure it would get through the MOT.

It's just fine - that weep hole is there by design and it'll pass an MOT.

Looks like corrosion to me

There's a bit of corrosion around the hole, but that hole is there by design in an OEM backbox. This is what it looks like on a new one. The condensed water dripping out on that video illustrates perfectly why it's needed.

Not all replacement backboxes have such a hole. The cheapie one (all I could get at short notice) I just fitted hasn't, which doesn't bode well for its likely lifespan.