Technical 2ltr 20v Turbo engine transplant

[GT2000]

Hi all, my first post on here.

Im in the process of fitting a 16v turbo engine from a coupe to my punto. At the moment everything is going to plan however ive come across a problem with regards to the wiring.

Ive been doing a hell of a lot of research to try and find the answer to my problem and noticed some of you guys fit the 20vT engine to the bravos so thought u may be able to help me.

My question is, if using standard coupe management and ECU, what do you do with the ignition loom side of the wiring? Im pretty sure my GT iginion loom will be different to that of a coupe without a doubt so im kind of stuck until I know whats what.

I know with vauxhall engine transplants you just cut the looms and join the colours together, fuel pump to fuel pump etc but would this work on my GT loom?

While im here, anyone got a wiring diagram for the 20 or 16vt by any chance?

Cheers in advance to anyone who helps.

 

[custard]

not got a clue but free bump

 

[h2ypr]

As above im not sure, but i think what you have said about the vauxhalls make sense. But be under no illusion. The 16vt and 20vt are 2 different beasts in setup and wiring.

Ross

 

[jug]

you do exactly the same thing as you would do on any car (including a vauxhall), you make a loom translation table that tells you which wires on the engine loom join to which wires on the car's loom. to make this table you simply compare the wiring diagrams. you make a note of wire colours and positions, and join them where ever is logically easiest. if your engine loom is cut short then you may need to use bridging wires in some cases.

the loom translation table stage is also when you identify differences. if something exists on one diagram and not the other you need to decide what you will do about it. some differences you can resolve easily by installing new wires, other differences you cant resolve so easily, they're the fun bits.

i'm sure the people on www.fccuk.org/forum will be able to supply wiring diagrams.

 

[randomizered]

On my conversion from stock ecu to megausquirt (sei but same principles really), I came across what may be potential issues for you:

There may be a fuel pump relay on one of the ecu's. On others the fuel pump is controlled by an earth on the ECU, so no FP relay.

On some the fan is switched via relays by ECU, on others its controlled by the temp sender in the rad.


You will need schematics of both as the colours for the lines won't necessarily match up.

Are you not just running the coupe ecu, and fitting the coupe loom to the coupe engine? It may need a few cable extensions etc, but would be easier.

Sorry if i misunderstood your post.

Krisitan


//edit - intintion side as in the one that goes into the car? doh

 

[GT2000]

Thanks for the replies so far. Very interesting reading. It seems its as I first imagined then, shouldnt be too difficult to rewire.

Im going to be using stock coupe engine wiring however the ignition loom connects to the engine loom on most cars before then connecting directly to the ECU. The GT has a block connector engine side to connect the ignition loom to the engine loom so it should be a fairly simple task, although finding a wiring diagram or even a haynes manual is a difficult process.

 

[jug]

you could use the fiat manuals, available as PDFs online to download for free. i dont have links to the mk1 punto or coupe manuals so ask in the relevant sections (and on fccuk).

 

[hgt shane]

Hows the engine transplant going mate, i'm going to try and fit another engine into my punto hgt as all 1.8 16v seem to have the same problems lol, just trying to find the easiest swop. I'm thinking possibly going for an alfa twin spark engine as you can buy the cars cheap, but need to do more reserch. Can you share your knowledge give me some sites or guides to help me decide.

 

[jug]

i'm going to try and fit another engine into my punto hgt as all 1.8 16v seem to have the same problems lol, just trying to find the easiest swop.

the 1.8 16v is one of the most reliable petrol engines fiat has ever made. what problems are you talking about? the only issues on the HGT version are the variator and coils.

I'm thinking possibly going for an alfa twin spark engine as you can buy the cars cheap, but need to do more reserch.

the 1747cc twinspark is the same engine as the punto HGT, but with a twinspark head and slightly more BHP, so it would not be too difficult to fit. imo its not a worthwhile project for the tiny gains, plus the twinspark version is less reliable and more expensive to maintain and has significantly worse fuel economy.

 

[hgt shane]

ok i'll scrap the twin spark idea, but as far as problems with the hgt engine goes where do i start, guess i,ve been unlucky then fiat dealers don't have a clue about them let alone fix them. the bottom end went had to get a new engine/reconed engine then it dropped a valve and now it needs a new engine again? every time i look for an hgt engine or car they seem to have problems at the same mileage 70k -80k.
Thats why i,m thinking of going for another engine option. thanks for the advice

 

[donny lad]

try a 2.o tspark engine mate roughly same size but alot faster lol give some reall performance gain or go 16v turbo like the other lad is?

 

[jug]

ok i'll scrap the twin spark idea, but as far as problems with the hgt engine goes where do i start, guess i,ve been unlucky then fiat dealers don't have a clue about them let alone fix them. the bottom end went had to get a new engine/reconed engine then it dropped a valve and now it needs a new engine again? every time i look for an hgt engine or car they seem to have problems at the same mileage 70k -80k.
Thats why i,m thinking of going for another engine option. thanks for the advice

the same 1747cc engine was used on the barchetta and bravo and brava and marea (although without the variator on the last 3) and it has proven to be very reliable to high mileage, so i think you have been very unlucky. fit another punto HGT engine, your bad luck cant last forever.

 

[jug]

try a 2.o tspark engine mate roughly same size but alot faster

it isnt a lot faster, the difference in power and torque is very small.

the 2.0 twinspark was made by extending the piston throw of the 1.8 twinspark, so they are virtualy identicle engine.

the 2.0 was only made because many people are so obsessed with capacity, so having a 2.0 engine in the range was needed to help sales and make the cars more competitive, even though the 1.8 twinspark gives better performance than almost all competitors' 2.0 engines.

the down side of the 2.0 twinspark is that the extended piston throw upset the balance, hence the balance shaft and belt that was added. that increases the cost of a timing belt replacement. the longer piston horw also makes the engine feel less "revvy". having driven both numerous times i prefer the 1.8. after all it is the original twinspark capacity that the engine was designed for.

 

[donny lad]

i thought you could have the balancer shaft welded up? im sure i have heard a few mates who have deltas talk about it.

 

[jug]

you can, and it increases power and torque (because engine becomes more efficient) but then you end up with vibration especially at high rpm, and ultimately crank shell failure and a knocking bottom end.

 

[donny lad]

so would a firged crank stop this or would that fail? seems a very interesting idea to me, if the car isnt a dailey driver why not go all out on it?

i bet on boddies it would sound awsome eah.

 

[jug]

the crank isnt the problem, its the crank bearing shells. they are very soft.

 

[ChrisUK]

the crank isnt the problem, its the crank bearing shells. they are very soft.

Yes almost as if their made from cheese :bang:. Well you heard the state of mine lol.

 

[jug]

your alfa sounded healthy compared to most knocking twinsparks i've heard. if i bought your car i wasnt going to worry about changing the shells for at least a few months. its cheap and easy enough to do so i dont know why so many people sell/scrap their cars when it happens. on alfaowner the usual advice is "scrap it" or "replace the engine", both a bit drastic imo.

 

[ChrisUK]

your alfa sounded healthy compared to most knocking twinsparks i've heard. if i bought your car i wasnt going to worry about changing the shells for at least a few months. its cheap and easy enough to do so i dont know why so many people sell/scrap their cars when it happens. on alfaowner the usual advice is "scrap it" or "replace the engine", both a bit drastic imo.

Yeah your right a month down the line it sounded a lot worse . Managed to sell it to some scrote (Stunk of booze and was driving without insurance) in london though for £1800 too! :devil: .