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Technical 2016 500X - Timing Belt

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Technical 2016 500X - Timing Belt

C

Cei

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Hi all,

Owned our '66 plate (1.4 MultiJet II) since new, yearly serviced, and is now at around 24,000 miles. The 6 year service is due, and this includes replacing the timing belt as per schedule, for which the dealer has quoted a mere £600 (plus the cost of the rest of the service and MOT, total £1100). This seems like an insane price, but I'd appreciate some input.

Firstly, is it just the timing belt being done here? Mopar has a distribution kit - https://moparstore.co.uk/distribution-kit-belt-fixed-and-adjustable-tensioner-3-pieces-71736717.html - that is £56.50, including belt and tensioners. If this is the only part being replaced, £550 in labour would strike me as excessive. Or is this also needing to include a water pump and Poly-V belt, of which Mopar list two different ones available for the make/model?

Finally, is this possible as a DIY job for somebody who's fairly comfortable in an engine bay, or does this need dealer/service level tools?
 
Hi :)

Its often noted on here that ringing around FIAT dealers will get quite a range of prices

£1100 is something even a @20% saving on might be worth an extra hour in the car to go there

At 6 years old weigh up the warranty implications of 'going elsewhere' too
 
Yeah, warranty is long gone at this point, so I don't mind taking it elsewhere - we've already switched main dealers as the one we purchased from no longer deals with Fiats! It's more to get an idea as to what is actually being replaced (just the timing belt? tensioners? water pump? poly-v belt?) and then whether a quote fits that amount of work.
 
Cei said:
Yeah, warranty is long gone at this point, so I don't mind taking it elsewhere - we've already switched main dealers as the one we purchased from no longer deals with Fiats! It's more to get an idea as to what is actually being replaced (just the timing belt? tensioners? water pump? poly-v belt?) and then whether a quote fits that amount of work.
Click to expand...
You might like to consider updating your "Profile LOCATION" so we can all get an idea of where you are in the country. Without this clue/info then you may be missing out on recommendations from other FF members with experience in your area!
 
Cei said:
Hi all,

Owned our '66 plate (1.4 MultiJet II) since new, yearly serviced, and is now at around 24,000 miles. The 6 year service is due, and this includes replacing the timing belt as per schedule, for which the dealer has quoted a mere £600 (plus the cost of the rest of the service and MOT, total £1100). This seems like an insane price, but I'd appreciate some input.

Firstly, is it just the timing belt being done here? Mopar has a distribution kit - https://moparstore.co.uk/distribution-kit-belt-fixed-and-adjustable-tensioner-3-pieces-71736717.html - that is £56.50, including belt and tensioners. If this is the only part being replaced, £550 in labour would strike me as excessive. Or is this also needing to include a water pump and Poly-V belt, of which Mopar list two different ones available for the make/model?

Finally, is this possible as a DIY job for somebody who's fairly comfortable in an engine bay, or does this need dealer/service level tools?
Click to expand...


If I was changing the cam-belt, I would change the water pump too, since it's good practice. The v-belt could be up for a change at 6 years but if neither are specifically listed in the user manual "Service" schedule, then I wouldn't *presume* that they would be replaced.. although like you, I'd hope that at that price they will be fitting platinum-coated components.

Your best bet is to ask the dealer for a breakdown of the work involved. What sometimes happens is a new, inexperienced, dumb or just crooked service agent will add up the price for an water pump, an aux belt, a cam-belt etc. without considering that to change the water pump is only 20m more work than changing the cam-belt, if they are done at the same time. It sounds like you could be being charged for each job separately, as if you were doing them one after the other.

Otherwise, look around for another garage that can do the work... ideally someone with Fiat or Alfa experience, since they'll have the software to check and clear codes, and also to reset any service counters etc.


Ralf S.
 
Any competent garage/mechanic can do a cam belt change in 3 or less hours. Ignoring water pump and aux. belt costs then the quoted prices seem excessive.

Aux belts have to come off anyway and cost say £30.

I could go on but what you need to do is get a complete list of EVERYTHING your garage is quoting. Post that back here an we may be able to say if they are taking the **** or in line with typical major dealer prices (who even changes an £x for consumables like sear covers, gloves, washing up liquid, coffee you never drank, ......

Please note! I'm not knocking genuine honest Fiat dealers as they do have large overheads BUT customers are entitled to know where and how their money is being consumed and on what. Itemised full breakdown of costs is what you should be given/offered without having to ask. If in doubt after a job you can and should be able to ask for the full workshop costing of parts, labour, pub grub :) ......
 
Agree with the above a belt change shold be c £300 including the ancillaires like tensioners and water pump. I would expect the dealer to do all these as a matter of course. I wouldnt trust them without confirmation first though. You must ask whats included. Dealer work warranty helps offset the cost a bit as does the years breakdown that seems mostl to be thrown in. You really must ask and pusj tjem for a discount. My delaer always improves on the initial rice if I go back and push with other prices. Its a hard thing parting with£1100 for a service job. There really are some decent garages about. Its just finding one. You should ask everyone in sight and see what pops up.
 
It is good to follow the manufacturer's instructions but in my opinion and experience, you can go for another two years and another 40 000 miles without changing all this stuff. And don't forget that the car always gives you a signal like noice ext if anything is wrong with the belts.
 
Most of the kits for cambelt changes come with water pump…so why wouldn’t you change it…just had it done on wife’s Renegade Trailhawk, with parts and MoT it cost £800,
The independent Jeep specialists are becoming Fiat specialists by default and ours loves the Fiat 2000cc Multijet
 
I agree with the above that you need to get this quote in detail so you can see clearly exactly what they are doing for the money. As people above have said, I'd always do the water pump and tensioner/idler bearings when fitting a new belt because it's often the failure of bearings in one of these components which is at the seat of a "so called" belt failure. Doing the aux (fan) belt at the same time is just common sense.

Someone above was wondering if the dealer had simply added together the menu prices for the separate parts of the job with no allowance being made for the fact that doing a pump at the same time as doing the timing belt only takes marginally longer due to almost the same parts needing to be dismantled for both operations. This actually happened to me. Before doing the belt on our Panda (1.2 petrol) I got quotes from several local garages including the main dealer (I'd always intended to do my own belt change but wondered what a workshop might charge) and the main dealer was so much more expensive I went back to them with the other quotes to ask them why. Turns out the receptionist was simply adding together the menu prices to get the total. During this conversation I was told that it was a waste of money to change the water pump if it didn't need it. I asked how this would be ascertained and was told that a visual inspection and a spin of the pulley would be done. I would not be happy with this. A pump which is maybe 5 or 6 - or whatever - years old and not leaking or feeling "crunchy" when spun right now may not be anything like so healthy a few years on down the line. My guess would be that the pump's design criteria would be for it to outlast the recommended life of the belt but not the recommended life of two belts?

Please excuse my ignorance folks but, although I'm deeply into the petrol engines, I have little detailed experience with our diesels. I thought the Multijets were chain cam engines? I know the ones in the wee Pandas I've seen are. Can someone enlighten me?
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
I agree with the above that you need to get this quote in detail so you can see clearly exactly what they are doing for the money. As people above have said, I'd always do the water pump and tensioner/idler bearings when fitting a new belt because it's often the failure of bearings in one of these components which is at the seat of a "so called" belt failure. Doing the aux (fan) belt at the same time is just common sense.

Someone above was wondering if the dealer had simply added together the menu prices for the separate parts of the job with no allowance being made for the fact that doing a pump at the same time as doing the timing belt only takes marginally longer due to almost the same parts needing to be dismantled for both operations. This actually happened to me. Before doing the belt on our Panda (1.2 petrol) I got quotes from several local garages including the main dealer (I'd always intended to do my own belt change but wondered what a workshop might charge) and the main dealer was so much more expensive I went back to them with the other quotes to ask them why. Turns out the receptionist was simply adding together the menu prices to get the total. During this conversation I was told that it was a waste of money to change the water pump if it didn't need it. I asked how this would be ascertained and was told that a visual inspection and a spin of the pulley would be done. I would not be happy with this. A pump which is maybe 5 or 6 - or whatever - years old and not leaking or feeling "crunchy" when spun right now may not be anything like so healthy a few years on down the line. My guess would be that the pump's design criteria would be for it to outlast the recommended life of the belt but not the recommended life of two belts?

Please excuse my ignorance folks but, although I'm deeply into the petrol engines, I have little detailed experience with our diesels. I thought the Multijets were chain cam engines? I know the ones in the wee Pandas I've seen are. Can someone enlighten me?
Click to expand...
Yes, chain driven
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
Hmm? So why, says he scratching his head, are we discussing a belt change? Or am I just so senile now that this whole thing has gotten away from me?
Click to expand...
Possibly as it’s now modern parlance to say ‘belt’ rather than chain…as an aside, whilst in the trade, I was surprised wehn Iveco went from chains, on the 2.5, to belts on the 2.8, but then, inexplicably, supplied the 2.8 with chain driven cams on the 4x4 (EU) and ‘we’ occasionally came across them in the standard vans
There are similar discussions about chains n belts and FPT improvements to Jeep engines on this:
 
porta said:
Possibly as it’s now modern parlance to say ‘belt’ rather than chain…as an aside, whilst in the trade, I was surprised wehn Iveco went from chains, on the 2.5, to belts on the 2.8, but then, inexplicably, supplied the 2.8 with chain driven cams on the 4x4 (EU) and ‘we’ occasionally came across them in the standard vans
There are similar discussions about chains n belts and FPT improvements to Jeep engines on this:
Click to expand...
When I was young it was, of course, all chains (or maybe gears on "expensive" motors) then belts came in - first belt I ever did was on a Fiat 128 - and I remember being very sceptical about them, promising myself I'd never own one. Then I got used to changing them and also there were a few "chain debacles" like the older TSI VAG engines and others - I remember a spectacular one on a LADA which had milled its way right through the casing! Then there were the Ford belts which run immersed in the oil and had problems (with shredding I believe which then blocked oil pickup screens?) Now a days, I would choose a dry belt in preference over a chain for two main reasons. Usually easier to change and they don't alter the timing by stretching. However I would steer clear of a "wet" belt. At the end of the day though, if you fancy a particular motor you've just got to go with whatever it's got don't you? Although I believe Ford did a chain conversion for one of their "wet belt" diesels?
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
When I was young it was, of course, all chains (or maybe gears on "expensive" motors) then belts came in - first belt I ever did was on a Fiat 128 - and I remember being very sceptical about them, promising myself I'd never own one. Then I got used to changing them and also there were a few "chain debacles" like the older TSI VAG engines and others - I remember a spectacular one on a LADA which had milled its way right through the casing! Then there were the Ford belts which run immersed in the oil and had problems (with shredding I believe which then blocked oil pickup screens?) Now a days, I would choose a dry belt in preference over a chain for two main reasons. Usually easier to change and they don't alter the timing by stretching. However I would steer clear of a "wet" belt. At the end of the day though, if you fancy a particular motor you've just got to go with whatever it's got don't you? Although I believe Ford did a chain conversion for one of their "wet belt" diesels?
Click to expand...
My first chain was a 127, my first belt was a 128 coupe…I loved belts, like you say, much easier to change, although I specialised into electrics >later called diagnostician and mechanics became technicians and computers said ‘no’ and everyone forgot how to use an AVO meter<
I now regret specialising (kind of) as I don’t trust myself with chain replacement
 
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