Technical 2013 2.3 Doesn't start after jumpstarting

[WojX]

My 2.3 doesn't start after I used it to jumpstart other car. It ran ok after jumpstarting, but once parked it no longer turns.

Relays in engine bay OK, fuses on battery OK. any idea what else might be wrong?

 

[varesecrazy]

My 2.3 doesn't start after I used it to jumpstart other car. It ran ok after jumpstarting, but once parked it no longer turns.

Relays in engine bay OK, fuses on battery OK. any idea what else might be wrong?

Worth trying a booster earth cable,

Battery to motor

The factory ones can rot internally

 

[WojX]

It happened right after the jumpstart, I got strong suspicion I've fried something right there. Question is what could it be.

 

[Greasytrucker]

Does sound like you’ve blown some sort of protection mega fuse doesn’t it, but you said you’d checked them all. Hopefully there’s an inline one somewhere you’ve missed. Hopefully someone familiar with the Ducato will be able to shed some light. If the starter is accessible is it worth trying to arc it with a screwdriver to see if it’s the starter itself? If you do get life out of it that way then you know the problem is with the power to the solenoid or the trigger wire or similar

 

[Communicator]

1. Is battery still OK?
2. Can you hear the starter solenoid operating? Normally a "clunk", which is more noticeable when the motor does not turn.
3. Starter motor main power circuit is fairly basic. It is Batt +, via CAL4 fuse, jump start point, to starter motor solenoid, and then starter motor. Return is engine block, engine block earth strap, chassis, and battery earth lead, to battery -.

As alluded to by @varesecrazy the engine block earth strap on x250, and later models is a common cause of problems.
If you connected your jump lead to the engine block, this strap could have been carrying the starting current for the second vehicle. That may have been sufficient to finish off an already partially corroded strap.

Attached photo has been saved from a previous thread.

 

[WojX]

I connected jump leads to battery...

1. New battery
2. No clicking noise or any noise whatsoever
3. Going to check this next.

As mentioned all lights on dash are on. Will double check relays/fuses.

 

[Greasytrucker]

I connected jump leads to battery...

1. New battery
2. No clicking noise or any noise whatsoever
3. Going to check this next.

As mentioned all lights on dash are on. Will double check relays/fuses.

And just to clarify you’ve tried connecting a jump lead from negative to the engine block thus providing a temporary earth strap to check original is still doing it’s job?

 

[Communicator]

I connected jump leads to battery...

1. New battery
2. No clicking noise or any noise whatsoever
3. Going to check this next.

As mentioned all light on dash are on. Will double check relays/fuses.

Standard advice is not to make final connection at battery, to avoid risk of explosion when disconnecting.

2. above suggests no circuit from ignition switch to operate solenoid, but could indicate faulty engine block earth.

If vehicle not an automatic, then no relay in starter solenoid circuit. Also no fuse in solenoid supply, other than that in connection to ignition switch.

Have you tried the tests suggested by @varesecrazy , and @Greasytrucker ?

 

[Reg 65]

I don't know whats wrong with your van - all I can say is I have jumpstarted a vauxhall vivaro van from my 2021 Ducato van - taking the current from my under bonnet terminals, with no issues.

 

[WojX]

And just to clarify you’ve tried connecting a jump lead from negative to the engine block thus providing a temporary earth strap to check original is still doing it’s job?

Haven't tried this yet.

 

[WojX]

I don't know whats wrong with your van - all I can say is I have jumpstarted a vauxhall vivaro van from my 2021 Ducato van - taking the current from my under bonnet terminals, with no issues.

I tapped directly into battery - not from terminals.

 

[Communicator]

Haven't tried this yet.

May I advise you to try. The engine earth strap is part of the circuit for the starter solenoid, starter motor, and alternator. If already weak, it could have been damaged by sustained high current from the alternator when jump starting the other vehicle.

 

[Reg 65]

I tapped directly into battery - not from terminals.

Could you have accidentally disturbed something in the battery box with your jump leads?

 

[WojX]

Could you have accidentally disturbed something in the battery box with your jump leads?

There isn't much to disturb there, but I'm not ruling anything out.

 

[Reg 65]

I was hoping it was going to be something simple like that
But your post has prompted me to read up on this, and am very sorry I have to say it doesn't look good. It could be a high price to pay for doing someone a good turn. Apparently the problem can occur when you disconnect the jump leads. Suddenly the flat battery is disconnected from the running alternator on the donor vehicle and you get a 'Load Dump' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_dump which in worst case scenario can cause a high voltage spike when all your alternator power suddenly has nowhere much to go. But that depends on many factors and it seems I have been lucky to avoid it so far. Possibly due to my secondary battery bank absorbing the spike. So I have bought a new set of jump leads with surge protection (reduced to only £10 at Lidl for 3.5m x 25mm2 equivalent cable) It has a little black box in the leads which is supposed to absorb the spike - as long as you disconnect the flat battery car first. Sorry thats of no help to you but might help others reading this before they help someone out like you did. Please let us know how you get on. I really hope its something minor.

 

[Communicator]

I was hoping it was going to be something simple like that
But your post has prompted me to read up on this, and am very sorry I have to say it doesn't look good. It could be a high price to pay for doing someone a good turn. Apparently the problem can occur when you disconnect the jump leads. Suddenly the flat battery is disconnected from the running alternator on the donor vehicle and you get a 'Load Dump' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_dump which in worst case scenario can cause a high voltage spike when all your alternator power suddenly has nowhere much to go. But that depends on many factors and it seems I have been lucky to avoid it so far. Possibly due to my secondary battery bank absorbing the spike. So I have bought a new set of jump leads with surge protection (reduced to only £10 at Lidl for 3.5m x 25mm2 equivalent cable) It has a little black box in the leads which is supposed to absorb the spike - as long as you disconnect the flat battery car first. Sorry thats of no help to you but might help others reading this before they help someone out like you did. Please let us know how you get on. I really hope its something minor.

I can appreciate that a spike in voltage could damage the an electronic control unit, but operation of the starter motor does nor generally involve any electronics.

 

[Reg 65]

Hopefully yes. I imagine the 120 volt spike in the Wikipedia article is worst case scenario - like disconnecting the only battery with the alternator spinning at speed? Someone compared it to water flowing through a pipe at speed, till you instantaneously close a valve and the water hits it like a hammer, with the momentum of the water behind it creating a momentary huge increase in pressure. Like when you are filling a vehicle with petrol and suddenly close the trigger and feel a thud as the fast flowing petrol is brought to an instant stop.
But I have successfully jump started many vehicles over the years using ordinary jump leads and disconnecting them with both engines running - but only with the donor vehicle on tick-over and it always had its own battery to absorb the spike when the load going through the jump leads to the flat battery was disconnected. I shall be more aware of the danger jump starting vehicles in future. But if you dwell on everything that could go wrong you would never do anything would you?

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

If I am reading this correctly, the van's starter is not operating and the engine is not turning over.

The starter motor is a fairly straightforward circuit which does not involve any electronics. The fault is hopefully likely to be something simple. I attach a schematic extract for the 2006 onward manual vans, yours should not be too far different. I suggest you get a test meter and check voltages at all the various components including earth returns whilst operating the starter via the key switch. I find it best to keep the negative lead of the meter permanently connected to the battery negative, so that all readings are referenced to the same point. If you aren't familiar with a test meter, try and find someone who is to help out - it's easier with two people anyway.

High current connections can behave in unexpected ways if there is a bit of corrosion or they are not tight, with the flow of current sometimes making them "come good" or "go bad". Not something covered in the perfect world of textbooks. If in doubt, remove connections, clean to bright metal and reassemble.

 

[WojX]

Long story short - the problem was faulty solenoid. Not sure if it packed up due to old age or was jumpstarting to blame, but after removal & refitting (which took longer than actual repair) it's good now.

Thanks to everybody who submitted their ideas, may your Ducato last forever.