Technical Ducato 2.3 Injector Coding

[Guber1]

Hi there. In trying to code new injectors on my Ducato 2.3 120cv from 2007, I'm using MES and ELM 327 adapter, I have removed the famous resistor, I'm able to connect to the ECU and read the older injector codes but when I try to program new values It always said adaptator not allows that function. Not sure if I need yellow cable to do that. I have doubts also with the cilinders numbering, I'm assuming that the first one is the one located next to the timing belt.

Thanks in advance

 

[ceecff]

Injector coding is in engine ecu, it doesn't need OBD adapter, resistence mod is to connect to other ecus. If it connect and log data ok then it should code injectors.
Check there are not errors DTC and injectors are number compatible with your ecu CF4 or CF5.

 

[Guber1]

I use same part number that the ones previously installed, the only difference is that three of them have one charracter more, but I read a topic saying that using only the first 7 is ok at should work. I'm trying today with an older PC an also with VAG cable to see what happen

 

[jackwhoo]

There is a thread on forum somewhere about injector codes with an extra digit and how it was resolved.

Did you get brand new genuine injectors from a reputable seller ?

 

[Guber1]

I bought used ones but before installing it I have it checked on a diesel lab, one of them were repaired the other ones just cleaned (no repair needed), so it were supposed to work perfectly between manufacturer parameters. The code itself doesn't seem to be the problem because I have also tried to code one of the old injector code on a different position and it also fail.

Thank you!

 

[Guber1]

Little update just in case. No luck with other computer. I also have a VAG adapter which I understand that is also compatible with MES, but after connecting it to the computer no COM port is available, and MES keep asking about a COM port.
Am i doing something wrong?

 

[bugsymike]

Little update just in case. No luck with other computer. I also have a VAG adapter which I understand that is also compatible with MES, but after connecting it to the computer no COM port is available, and MES keep asking about a COM port.
Am i doing something wrong?

I don't use MES but I have found if you go on Gendans website they have details on MES diagnostic tool saying what version and leads you may need to do what operation so very helpful.
By the way what was the specific reason for the coding?
The reason I say this is I have stripped and rebuilt the older Bosch solenoid type injectors and fitted new nozzles etc.and not needed to re code them, the only time I did was for a friend whose replacement injectors were running slightly uneven and after coding using my MaxiEcu scan tool he could feel an improvement and smoother running.

 

[Guber1]

Not sure if it is mandatory after injector replacement, maybe is just a minor adjustment. Engine has a smooth idle no rattling and speeds up ok, but a lot of white smoke is coming out of the exhaust. The engine were totally rebuilt, new bearings, new head gasket so I'm confident with that, I'm guessing that the problem should be on injector side or EGR or ECU not adjusting correctly, maybe O2 sensor i bad, DPF is blocked or something. Not DTC is present at this moment ...

So maybe injector coding fix that white smoke

Thanks

 

[bugsymike]

Not sure if it is mandatory after injector replacement, maybe is just a minor adjustment. Engine has a smooth idle no rattling and speeds up ok, but a lot of white smoke is coming out of the exhaust. The engine were totally rebuilt, new bearings, new head gasket so I'm confident with that, I'm guessing that the problem should be on injector side or EGR or ECU not adjusting correctly, maybe O2 sensor i bad, DPF is blocked or something. Not DTC is present at this moment ...

So maybe injector coding fix that white smoke

Thanks

I honestly do not think coding will cure white smoke.
Assuming engine only does white smoke from cold and goes away once engine is warm then the most common cause is low compression or failing heater plugs. As I have mentioned elsewhere on forum, the other name for a diesel engine is CI engine as in Compression Ignition, what this means is low compression = poor ignition giving white smoke smelling of diesel, it is usually only when engine is cold. So if you are happy the compression of the engine is good then worth checking the heater plug side.
If engine gives white smoke once warmed up as well and this white smoke doesn't not smell of diesel but is strong and pungent and makes your eyes water then it can be faulty DPF filter and engine trying to do a constant Regen.
I had this on a 2012 Citroen C3 Picasso 1.6 diesel with 220k miles (ex mini cab) on that I removed the DPF filter which was badly blocked and cleaned it internally with commercial bleach and oven clean cleaner along with a powerful commercial steam cleaner I own, I then used a friends Snap On diagnostic tool to tell the ECU that a new DPF had been fitted, it then ran perfectly and clean for another four years before I replaced the DPF with a new one.
I had access to good diagnostics which told me the amount of blockage/soot content in the DPF so pointing me in the correct direction.
I strongly suggest a good diagnostic test with a good quality tool will save you wasting money.
Apart from that, since your injector come out fairly easily I would suggest a good diesel compression test as a a way or ruling that out. I know you have had the engine rebuilt but it is not a guarantee of a strong engine.
Assuming the compressions are good, my instincts are towards the DPF side, the diagnostics should show that, one test shows the pressure before and after the DPF filter, incidentally Fiat did have some early DPF filter pressure sensors failing at one time as a friend who had recently retired from a Fiat Motor Home company told me.
Let us know how you get on as it will help other on Forum.

 

[jackwhoo]

If it has a dpf I too think white smoke is dpf/regen related. Trying to do a regent but may be not completing.
If you can get a computer to do a forced regen and it completes successfully that may solve it.

 

[Guber1]

It starts really fast so I'm guessing(hoping) that compression is ok, usually when compression is low starting could be a problem. Heater plugs with 40ºC outside shouldn't be actually doing anything. I need to check the exhaust starting from the engine cause ocasionally I saw smoke and smells like combustion gas, I'm sure that there is something between the manifold and the DPF not perfectly fitted, maybe that is affecting to the regen and the O2 sensor.

Compression test will be a good starting point but I don't have the tool needed so I will check everything else before.

I have also to say that the steering pump is broken and because the belt moving the sterring pump is the same that moves the alternator I can't currently keep the engine running for more than 5 or 6 minutes.

So I will fix this two things and give it a ride. Hopefully all the lubricants used on the assembly and the water or dust acummulated will burn away (6 months stopped)

Thank you both

Edit: just to give some context, cilinder were measured and it was perfect, anyway a little burnish were given. Segments were replaced.

 

[bugsymike]

It starts really fast so I'm guessing(hoping) that compression is ok, usually when compression is low starting could be a problem. Heater plugs with 40ºC outside shouldn't be actually doing anything. I need to check the exhaust starting from the engine cause ocasionally I saw smoke and smells like combustion gas, I'm sure that there is something between the manifold and the DPF not perfectly fitted, maybe that is affecting to the regen and the O2 sensor.

Compression test will be a good starting point but I don't have the tool needed so I will check everything else before.

I have also to say that the steering pump is broken and because the belt moving the sterring pump is the same that moves the alternator I can't currently keep the engine running for more than 5 or 6 minutes.

So I will fix this two things and give it a ride. Hopefully all the lubricants used on the assembly and the water or dust acummulated will burn away (6 months stopped)

Thank you both

From what you describe it does seem to point more towards DPF.
As a temporary "bodge test" ,can you safely disconnect the DPF and lower it away a little, then if you start the engine you will see if the white smoke is coming from the engine or actually develops after it passes through the DPF.
This will of course throw up more error codes, but may help to pinpoint where the fault lies. Also if it is the DPF then it will be halfway removed anyway.
Be aware of any fire risk etc. with the hot exhaust blowing out behind the engine.
Another point if you are experiencing exhaust blowing in that area between engine and DPF it could point to DPF blockage building up pressure forcing exhaust to leak.
Note, sometimes DPF blockage pressure build up can be a cause of Turbo failure for the same reason.
Finally you mention cylinders/bores perfect I have found that on older Sofim 2.8 diesels and honed/burnished the bores and fitted new piston rings and been fine. I assume what you call "segments" are piston rings.

 

[jackwhoo]

Do not run engine again until you are ready to drive it , running without an auxiliary belt fitted is bad for crank pulley .

Sounds like rebuild carried out correctly

 

[bugsymike]

Do not run engine again until you are ready to drive it , running without an auxiliary belt fitted is bad for crank pulley .

I was not aware of that, can you clarify, as my mate used to say "knowledge is power".

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi

I was not aware of that, can you clarify, as my mate used to say "knowledge is power".

Hi Mike,
The damper built into the pulley works with the belt and mass of auxiliary pulleys.
Without belt the pulley damper rubber flexes more than designed leading to failure.
Cheers
Jack

 

[bugsymike]

Hi
Hi Mike,
The damper built into the pulley works with the belt and mass of auxiliary pulleys.
Without belt the pulley damper rubber flexes more than designed leading to failure.
Cheers
Jack

Thanks for that, in the past I was only concerned if it ran the water pump.

 

[Guber1]

From what you describe it does seem to point more towards DPF.
As a temporary "bodge test" ,can you safely disconnect the DPF and lower it away a little, then if you start the engine you will see if the white smoke is coming from the engine or actually develops after it passes through the DPF.
This will of course throw up more error codes, but may help to pinpoint where the fault lies. Also if it is the DPF then it will be halfway removed anyway.
Be aware of any fire risk etc. with the hot exhaust blowing out behind the engine.
Another point if you are experiencing exhaust blowing in that area between engine and DPF it could point to DPF blockage building up pressure forcing exhaust to leak.
Note, sometimes DPF blockage pressure build up can be a cause of Turbo failure for the same reason.
Finally you mention cylinders/bores perfect I have found that on older Sofim 2.8 diesels and honed/burnished the bores and fitted new piston rings and been fine. I assume what you call "segments" are piston rings.

Sorry pistons rings, I was betrayed by the translator and used the direct translation

I didn't know about the pulley, good to know and It makes sense because belts are tensioned in opposite directions.

Hoppefully I will be able to give it a ride this weekend, I will keep you update

 

[jackwhoo]

Thanks for that, in the past I was only concerned if it ran the water pump.

Yes that too

 

[jackwhoo]

Sorry pistons rings, I was betrayed by the translator and used the direct translation

I didn't know about the pulley, good to know and It makes sense because belts are tensioned in opposite directions.

Hoppefully I will be able to give it a ride this weekend, I will keep you update

I am now excited for you after all the work it goes very well.
Best wishes
Jack

 

[Guber1]

Hi.

I was able to code injectors using an old KKL cable that I use for mi triumph, so chinnese ELM327 not able to code injectors even removing de resistor between CAN_H and CAN_L. Just for information in case someone need to do the same, also no adaptor, yellow cable or whatever, just with the ODB adapter.

Steering pump took more than expected to arrive, finally it arrived yesterday, mounted right away. Mounted also air filter box and filter itself, checked exhaust manifold, tighten some screws a litle bit. And turned the engine ON, there is still a minor gas leak somewhere that I'm unable to find, but is seems to be located close to the turbo, the turbo is whistling too so I need to check that area, the problem is that is located just behind the engine and is not easy to see.

With all the installation and checks I didn't have time to give it a ride, I'm expecting to do it today. But is looking better, some white/gray smoke just when the pedal is pressed for 1 or 2 seconds. I have checked Fuel quantity correction with MES in each cilinder and is never greater that 0.5, Fuel Presure reachs more than 1200 bars without problems and keep similar to the desired one and same to air quantity.

I'm suspecting that the main problem was something related to the injection applied, more fuel than the needed were being injected and that caused the white smoke.

Thats all for now.